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One day I hope the humanity will credit the Soviet Union for what it really was -- a technocratic meritocracy, where scientific progress and enormous projects o

One day I hope the humanity will credit the Soviet Union for what it really was -- a technocratic meritocracy, where scientific progress and enormous projects of planetary scale mattered more than daily preferences of spoiled individuals. Hopefully one day such a society will emerge again, and this time they will not dismantle themselves over having Coke and Levi's. Having lived in USSR -- no, we seriously didn't break up because of human rights issues. We just simply wanted Coke and Levi's.

lafar6502 13y ago
Maybe it deserves credit for R&D and engineering talent, but certainly not for what USSR really was.
- versale 13y ago
  As born in the USSR I can confirm that the USSR was a much better place to live in than modern Russia from almost any point of view: the best education system, better and affordable healthcare, practically no crime (if to compare with modern Russia), books and movies of much better quality than the flood of post-modern shit we have now, zero unemployment rate etc...
  - pavel_lishin 13y ago
    I was born in Russia in 1984; it was pretty great to me, because a) young kids don't notice as much of society's ills, and b) I'm the grandchild of a well respected academic. Life was pretty good for me and my family; not so good for my friend, who had to share a two bedroom apartment with two other families. (I feel that books, movies, etc. are pretty subjective - I like the flood of post-modern shit we live in. You might have to dig a little harder to find diamonds, but there are more of them.)
  - anateus 13y ago
    As a Jew born in the USSR that soon emigrated, I've thankfully avoided the harrowing experiences my parents and grandparents had to go through. Comparing favorably to a kleptocracy that used Capitalism as a false flag just as much as the old oligarchy used Socialism isn't the sort of glowing recommendation I think you intended.
deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
pavel_lishin 13y ago
> a technocratic meritocracy Unless you're Jewish.
- sssilver 13y ago
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zhores_Alferov http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zhores_Alferov http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Felix_Berezin http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Felix_Berezin http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gersh_Budker http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gersh_Budker http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ilya_Frank http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ilya_Frank http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yakov_Frenkel http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yakov_Frenkel http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexei_Fridman http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexei_Fridman http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Friedmann http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Friedmann http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitaly_Ginzburg http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitaly_Ginzburg http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evgeni_Gross http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evgeni_Gross http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boris_Hessen http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boris_Hessen http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abram_Ioffe http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abram_Ioffe http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yulii_Borisovich_Khariton http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yulii_Borisovich_Khariton http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isaak_Kikoin http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isaak_Kikoin http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ilya_Lifshitz http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ilya_Lifshitz http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evgeny_Lifshitz http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evgeny_Lifshitz http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leonid_Mandelstam http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leonid_Mandelstam http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arkady_Migdal http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arkady_Migdal http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Markovich_Polyakov http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Markovich_Polyakov http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isaak_Pomeranchuk http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isaak_Pomeranchuk http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bruno_Pontecorvo http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bruno_Pontecorvo http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mikhail_Rabinovich http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mikhail_Rabinovich http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lev_Pavlovich_Rapoport http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lev_Pavlovich_Rapoport http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Igor_Tamm http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Igor_Tamm http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akiva_Yaglom http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akiva_Yaglom http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yakov_Borisovich_Zel%27dovich http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yakov_Borisovich_Zel%27dovich Arguments much?
  - cgh 13y ago
vidarh 13y ago
Meritocracy? Really? Then explain Lysenko, for example, who single-handedly, thanks to his political clout with Stalin and Krushchev, set Soviet agriculture, genetics and biology research back several decades. For severall years, going against Lysenko's theories was actually illegal. And you can feel free to arrange your own little Soviet state. For my part, my marxist views would most likely have gotten me sent to Siberia or worse, so I'd much rather stay clear.
rebolek 13y ago
When scientific progress mattered more, so why was cybernetics considered bourgeois pseudoscience? Also, how can you progress on planetary scale, when there's shortage of toilet paper?
- _random_ 13y ago
  It seems that USA has many kinds of treatments for cancer these days - a manifestation of recent scientific progress obviously. What is the typical way very poor people to get it (or lets say even a chemistry teacher, who obviously cannot be poor in a reasonable society)? (But toilet paper is obviously important as well).
InclinedPlane 13y ago
Are you fucking kidding me? Nearly as many people died due to Stalinism than did in the entirety of WWII. It was a horrorshow. A violent, oppressive regime that murdered millions and caused misery for millions more? Technocratic meritocracy? Bullshit. It was always about political favoritism. When smart people were in political favor maybe good shit got done, when dumb people were in political favor, well, shit got fucked. Lysenkoism is hardly a ringing endorsement for communism. Nor is the Venera program for that matter. Was it worth tens of millions butchered? Tens of millions enslaved under brutal conditions in labor camps? Tens of millions living lives of fear and hopelessness?
- dang 13y ago
  I know you were provoked by a trollish comment, but it should be obvious that this not an appropriate post for Hacker News. All: this indignant political subthread is off topic.

lafar6502 13y ago

Maybe it deserves credit for R&D and engineering talent, but certainly not for what USSR really was.

versale 13y ago
As born in the USSR I can confirm that the USSR was a much better place to live in than modern Russia from almost any point of view: the best education system, better and affordable healthcare, practically no crime (if to compare with modern Russia), books and movies of much better quality than the flood of post-modern shit we have now, zero unemployment rate etc...
- pavel_lishin 13y ago
  I was born in Russia in 1984; it was pretty great to me, because a) young kids don't notice as much of society's ills, and b) I'm the grandchild of a well respected academic. Life was pretty good for me and my family; not so good for my friend, who had to share a two bedroom apartment with two other families. (I feel that books, movies, etc. are pretty subjective - I like the flood of post-modern shit we live in. You might have to dig a little harder to find diamonds, but there are more of them.)
- anateus 13y ago
  As a Jew born in the USSR that soon emigrated, I've thankfully avoided the harrowing experiences my parents and grandparents had to go through. Comparing favorably to a kleptocracy that used Capitalism as a false flag just as much as the old oligarchy used Socialism isn't the sort of glowing recommendation I think you intended.

deleted 13y ago

[deleted]

pavel_lishin 13y ago

> a technocratic meritocracy Unless you're Jewish.

sssilver 13y ago
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zhores_Alferov http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zhores_Alferov http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Felix_Berezin http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Felix_Berezin http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gersh_Budker http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gersh_Budker http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ilya_Frank http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ilya_Frank http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yakov_Frenkel http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yakov_Frenkel http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexei_Fridman http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexei_Fridman http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Friedmann http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Friedmann http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitaly_Ginzburg http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitaly_Ginzburg http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evgeni_Gross http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evgeni_Gross http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boris_Hessen http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boris_Hessen http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abram_Ioffe http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abram_Ioffe http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yulii_Borisovich_Khariton http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yulii_Borisovich_Khariton http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isaak_Kikoin http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isaak_Kikoin http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ilya_Lifshitz http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ilya_Lifshitz http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evgeny_Lifshitz http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evgeny_Lifshitz http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leonid_Mandelstam http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leonid_Mandelstam http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arkady_Migdal http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arkady_Migdal http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Markovich_Polyakov http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Markovich_Polyakov http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isaak_Pomeranchuk http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isaak_Pomeranchuk http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bruno_Pontecorvo http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bruno_Pontecorvo http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mikhail_Rabinovich http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mikhail_Rabinovich http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lev_Pavlovich_Rapoport http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lev_Pavlovich_Rapoport http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Igor_Tamm http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Igor_Tamm http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akiva_Yaglom http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akiva_Yaglom http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yakov_Borisovich_Zel%27dovich http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yakov_Borisovich_Zel%27dovich Arguments much?
- cgh 13y ago

vidarh 13y ago

Meritocracy? Really? Then explain Lysenko, for example, who single-handedly, thanks to his political clout with Stalin and Krushchev, set Soviet agriculture, genetics and biology research back several decades. For severall years, going against Lysenko's theories was actually illegal. And you can feel free to arrange your own little Soviet state. For my part, my marxist views would most likely have gotten me sent to Siberia or worse, so I'd much rather stay clear.

rebolek 13y ago

When scientific progress mattered more, so why was cybernetics considered bourgeois pseudoscience? Also, how can you progress on planetary scale, when there's shortage of toilet paper?

_random_ 13y ago
It seems that USA has many kinds of treatments for cancer these days - a manifestation of recent scientific progress obviously. What is the typical way very poor people to get it (or lets say even a chemistry teacher, who obviously cannot be poor in a reasonable society)? (But toilet paper is obviously important as well).

InclinedPlane 13y ago

Are you fucking kidding me? Nearly as many people died due to Stalinism than did in the entirety of WWII. It was a horrorshow. A violent, oppressive regime that murdered millions and caused misery for millions more? Technocratic meritocracy? Bullshit. It was always about political favoritism. When smart people were in political favor maybe good shit got done, when dumb people were in political favor, well, shit got fucked. Lysenkoism is hardly a ringing endorsement for communism. Nor is the Venera program for that matter. Was it worth tens of millions butchered? Tens of millions enslaved under brutal conditions in labor camps? Tens of millions living lives of fear and hopelessness?

dang 13y ago
I know you were provoked by a trollish comment, but it should be obvious that this not an appropriate post for Hacker News. All: this indignant political subthread is off topic.