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I do not think there is a viable alternative to C++ as a systems language, thus it's utilization in a complex project combining many systems developed by differ

I do not think there is a viable alternative to C++ as a systems language, thus it's utilization in a complex project combining many systems developed by different parties makes sense. That being said, no humanly comprehensible amount of rules can make average engineer churn out good C++ code and no amount of good engineers can save project with bad management.

steveklabnik 13y ago
Have you checked out Rust yet? It's too unstable to be a viable alternative yet, but I have high hopes.
- vowelless 13y ago
  I don't think Rust is aiming for hard real-time systems. Other than that, I too am quite excited for it.
  - Jweb_Guru 13y ago
    It is definitely aiming for hard real-time systems. It's not quite there yet, but the Rust developers been hard at work removing obstacles to its use in those situations.
mercurial 13y ago
From the little I read about the F-35, the problems started with "bad requirements".
jasonwatkinspdx 13y ago
Galois and others have had success using Haskell, or using Haskell tooling to generate formally assured c/c++. I think there's plenty more industry could be doing today, even when tied to c/c++.
fzltrp 13y ago
You said viable, so I guess you mean production ready, which excludes still experimental or "in gestation" languages like rust or ATS, but they are indeed worth a look (note that ATS in its 1st incarnation targets C). I'd like to point out that there was a post several weeks ago on /r/haskell of someone having implemented a BSD kernel module. There's also MirageOS, an OCaml implemented framework providing all the services of an OS, thus letting people boot their apps in a VM very easily (that's the aim of the project afaik, given that it comes from the same lab than Xen. While not specifically tuned for OS development, they seem able to cope well with the task. Note that both languages also have a native SSL library development ongoing, which is a part of the MirageOS framework in the case of OCaml.

steveklabnik 13y ago

Have you checked out Rust yet? It's too unstable to be a viable alternative yet, but I have high hopes.

vowelless 13y ago
I don't think Rust is aiming for hard real-time systems. Other than that, I too am quite excited for it.
- Jweb_Guru 13y ago
  It is definitely aiming for hard real-time systems. It's not quite there yet, but the Rust developers been hard at work removing obstacles to its use in those situations.

mercurial 13y ago

From the little I read about the F-35, the problems started with "bad requirements".

jasonwatkinspdx 13y ago

Galois and others have had success using Haskell, or using Haskell tooling to generate formally assured c/c++. I think there's plenty more industry could be doing today, even when tied to c/c++.

fzltrp 13y ago

You said viable, so I guess you mean production ready, which excludes still experimental or "in gestation" languages like rust or ATS, but they are indeed worth a look (note that ATS in its 1st incarnation targets C). I'd like to point out that there was a post several weeks ago on /r/haskell of someone having implemented a BSD kernel module. There's also MirageOS, an OCaml implemented framework providing all the services of an OS, thus letting people boot their apps in a VM very easily (that's the aim of the project afaik, given that it comes from the same lab than Xen. While not specifically tuned for OS development, they seem able to cope well with the task. Note that both languages also have a native SSL library development ongoing, which is a part of the MirageOS framework in the case of OCaml.