4 ms·

Because generally you'll want to deal with a bit higher-level structures using the visual paradigm. So, a Fibonacci generator should be just a box, not a whole

by bergie 13y ago

Because generally you'll want to deal with a bit higher-level structures using the visual paradigm. So, a Fibonacci generator should be just a box, not a whole graph. Visual programming can help keeping track of data flows within complex and/or parallel programs.

arethuza 13y ago
I rather like Martin Fowler's view of diagrams being sketches used to communicate rather than blueprints from which to build stuff: "comprehensiveness is the enemy of comprehensibility" I like nice simple diagrams (I joke to colleagues about having a limited budget for boxes and arrows or drawing things in crayon) - having these kinds of things where you try and include everything in your diagram seems to miss the point to me. http://martinfowler.com/bliki/UmlAsSketch.html http://martinfowler.com/bliki/UmlAsSketch.html
- bergie 13y ago
  Yeah, except that in our system the graphs are still executable: http://noflojs.org/ http://noflojs.org/
  - arethuza 13y ago
    So are your components written directly in a "lower level" language (JavaScript etc.) and then the high level structure relating those components defined in the diagrams?
    - bergie 13y ago
      Yep, in NoFlo you write components in JavaScript, though you can also use other diagrams as "subgraph" components. In other environments compatible with the FBP protocol (http://noflojs.org/documentation/protocol/ http://noflojs.org/documentation/protocol/) the components may be written in other languages. For example, MicroFlo components for microcontrollers are C++.
      - arethuza 13y ago
        Thanks - that makes sense. I just get a bit nervous with the idea that it makes sense to use a diagram-based representation all the way down the stack.
        bergie 13y ago
        Here is one example of a project where we used FBP on Node.js, browser, and microcontrollers. The components in the graph you can see there are quite high-level: http://bergie.iki.fi/blog/ingress-table/ http://bergie.iki.fi/blog/ingress-table/
jayd16 13y ago
At what point does a visual program become low level enough to not just be a architectural whiteboard session?

by bergie 13y ago

arethuza 13y ago

I rather like Martin Fowler's view of diagrams being sketches used to communicate rather than blueprints from which to build stuff: "comprehensiveness is the enemy of comprehensibility" I like nice simple diagrams (I joke to colleagues about having a limited budget for boxes and arrows or drawing things in crayon) - having these kinds of things where you try and include everything in your diagram seems to miss the point to me. http://martinfowler.com/bliki/UmlAsSketch.html http://martinfowler.com/bliki/UmlAsSketch.html

bergie 13y ago
Yeah, except that in our system the graphs are still executable: http://noflojs.org/ http://noflojs.org/
- arethuza 13y ago
  So are your components written directly in a "lower level" language (JavaScript etc.) and then the high level structure relating those components defined in the diagrams?
  - bergie 13y ago
    Yep, in NoFlo you write components in JavaScript, though you can also use other diagrams as "subgraph" components. In other environments compatible with the FBP protocol (http://noflojs.org/documentation/protocol/ http://noflojs.org/documentation/protocol/) the components may be written in other languages. For example, MicroFlo components for microcontrollers are C++.
    - arethuza 13y ago
      Thanks - that makes sense. I just get a bit nervous with the idea that it makes sense to use a diagram-based representation all the way down the stack.
      - bergie 13y ago
        Here is one example of a project where we used FBP on Node.js, browser, and microcontrollers. The components in the graph you can see there are quite high-level: http://bergie.iki.fi/blog/ingress-table/ http://bergie.iki.fi/blog/ingress-table/

jayd16 13y ago

At what point does a visual program become low level enough to not just be a architectural whiteboard session?