4 ms·

I don't think that anyone is claiming that GitHub "owes" the community the details. While this may have been an "internal company matter" initially, it did eve

by Pacabel 12y ago

I don't think that anyone is claiming that GitHub "owes" the community the details. While this may have been an "internal company matter" initially, it did eventually become very public. There has already been a huge amount of speculation out in the open regarding whatever might have happened in this case, much of it quite negative. So given all of this speculation and gossip, it's not at all surprising that there are people, including users and customers of GitHub, who just want some facts. And there's nothing unreasonable about them requesting such information, especially when it's paying customers doing the asking.

yawboakye 12y ago
> ... especially when it's paying customers doing the asking. Bullshit. I'm a paying GitHub customer ($7/mo) and I'm not interested in the details. I think I'm more interested in the company recovering as quickly as possible to deliver more awesomeness. How does asking for unnecessary detail help that?
- Pacabel 12y ago
  It's fine that you don't care about this information. But that in no way means that others hold the same view as you. There are people and organizations paying significantly more each month than you are, and they're very likely using GitHub in a way that's far more critical to their operations than it may be for you. For some customers or potential customers, the factual details regarding this case are more important than I think you realize. They need the facts to help decide if they want to keep using GitHub going forward, or if they even want to adopt it in the first place. Without the facts, they have to sift through rampant speculation, trying to make educated guesses at what's plausible and how it may affect them, their source code, their obligations, and their continued operation as a business. Part of the "recovery" involves getting factual information out there so that existing and new customers aren't faced with uncertainty. Somebody paying $7 per month might not care, but people and organizations paying $200 or more very well may.
  - yawboakye 12y ago
    > They need the facts to help decide if they want to keep using GitHub going forward, or if they even want to adopt it in the first place. Bullshit again. How? This is not an OkCupid/Mozilla (against browser but not against programming language). It's needlessly poking your nose until it bleeds. For a customer paying $200/mo, how would knowing the fine print help their decision making? Assuming the details are appalling and sick, Would you stop using jQuery because they wouldn't move from GitHub? Other open source projects on GitHub too? Would you switch services because the organization decided to stick with GitHub after all? If you would use services and projects on Github no matter what, what's the point in asking for these details?
    - SolarNet 12y ago
      Because jQuery, as a public project, is not supporting github financially. For a company paying thousands of dollars to github, trusting them with potential trade secrets, they would care about the stability of github's employees, the way github treats different kinds of people [1], the ability of github's HR department to keep their employees happy, etc. Them failing those criteria would mean that they are exposing me to risks with regard to HR, the security of my code, and now PR risks. At which point, why would I pay them? [1] If my company, paying github, is half women, do I have to worry about the fact that half of my employees might be discriminated against if they talk to github? If a female executive of my company talks to them, will she be harassed?
      - judk 12y ago
        Name the largest business you work with that has not had any internal legal disputes that were settled privately.
      - yawboakye 12y ago
        Since their establishment they've dealt with the situations similar to/exactly the same as what you're concerned about. That history is there for our benefits. Granted, what happened with Horvath was admittedly a mistake. Here's what we could do: We could hang on to that and question their integrity and everything that they've done right during their existence but that would be us being overzealous and giving more attention to the wrong thing. They're dedicated to fixing this shit themselves, let's not make it harder by asking for more detail than what we already know. I can assure you that it's worthless data for making any decision about whether or not to use GitHub.

by Pacabel 12y ago

yawboakye 12y ago

> ... especially when it's paying customers doing the asking. Bullshit. I'm a paying GitHub customer ($7/mo) and I'm not interested in the details. I think I'm more interested in the company recovering as quickly as possible to deliver more awesomeness. How does asking for unnecessary detail help that?

Pacabel 12y ago
It's fine that you don't care about this information. But that in no way means that others hold the same view as you. There are people and organizations paying significantly more each month than you are, and they're very likely using GitHub in a way that's far more critical to their operations than it may be for you. For some customers or potential customers, the factual details regarding this case are more important than I think you realize. They need the facts to help decide if they want to keep using GitHub going forward, or if they even want to adopt it in the first place. Without the facts, they have to sift through rampant speculation, trying to make educated guesses at what's plausible and how it may affect them, their source code, their obligations, and their continued operation as a business. Part of the "recovery" involves getting factual information out there so that existing and new customers aren't faced with uncertainty. Somebody paying $7 per month might not care, but people and organizations paying $200 or more very well may.
- yawboakye 12y ago
  > They need the facts to help decide if they want to keep using GitHub going forward, or if they even want to adopt it in the first place. Bullshit again. How? This is not an OkCupid/Mozilla (against browser but not against programming language). It's needlessly poking your nose until it bleeds. For a customer paying $200/mo, how would knowing the fine print help their decision making? Assuming the details are appalling and sick, Would you stop using jQuery because they wouldn't move from GitHub? Other open source projects on GitHub too? Would you switch services because the organization decided to stick with GitHub after all? If you would use services and projects on Github no matter what, what's the point in asking for these details?
  - SolarNet 12y ago
    Because jQuery, as a public project, is not supporting github financially. For a company paying thousands of dollars to github, trusting them with potential trade secrets, they would care about the stability of github's employees, the way github treats different kinds of people [1], the ability of github's HR department to keep their employees happy, etc. Them failing those criteria would mean that they are exposing me to risks with regard to HR, the security of my code, and now PR risks. At which point, why would I pay them? [1] If my company, paying github, is half women, do I have to worry about the fact that half of my employees might be discriminated against if they talk to github? If a female executive of my company talks to them, will she be harassed?
    - judk 12y ago
      Name the largest business you work with that has not had any internal legal disputes that were settled privately.
    - yawboakye 12y ago
      Since their establishment they've dealt with the situations similar to/exactly the same as what you're concerned about. That history is there for our benefits. Granted, what happened with Horvath was admittedly a mistake. Here's what we could do: We could hang on to that and question their integrity and everything that they've done right during their existence but that would be us being overzealous and giving more attention to the wrong thing. They're dedicated to fixing this shit themselves, let's not make it harder by asking for more detail than what we already know. I can assure you that it's worthless data for making any decision about whether or not to use GitHub.