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An anonymous post on medium by github insiders: https://medium.com/p/d96f431f4e8e https://medium.com/p/d96f431f4e8e Unfortunate that it is anonymous, but it is

by hntaway 12y ago

An anonymous post on medium by github insiders: https://medium.com/p/d96f431f4e8e https://medium.com/p/d96f431f4e8e Unfortunate that it is anonymous, but it is still worth reading in my opinion.

deleted 12y ago
[deleted]
- wlesieutre 12y ago
  Really? I must have missed the part where people were burned alive or had their heads chopped off.
  - wlesieutre 12y ago
    For reference, parent comment was along the lines of "Woah. This is crazier than Game of Thrones!" Maybe an attempt at humor, but it's really not.
TodPunk 12y ago
This is probably the most relevant article of the 6 or so I've read in the comments. It shows both sides as human and lacking good social management constructs for the situation. Reading several weeks of Horvath's twitter feed and several articles where she's quoted, it's apparent to me that regardless of what happened at Github, she is a bitter and dramatic individual. That's NOT the kind of person that backs down to the adult-talk at the table. Again, I don't know what happened at github, and I honestly don't care. What I do know is that I would never hire Horvath regardless of what she could do for the company. Far too much risk, and exemplified with a terribly immature response even if everything she says is true.
stefantalpalaru 12y ago
Those details completely change the story. Why not make them public when the scandal erupted instead of a month afterwards? Now that the subject is dead and buried there will probably be no journalistic investigation.
leccine 12y ago
Wow, this actually makes the rest of the story more clear.
bitlord_219 12y ago
It's telling that nobody would attach their name to the article. Horvath's already publicly laughed it off.
- nailer 12y ago
  What was her alternate version of the missing events? It's hard to believe the techCrunch story when it starts so late in the game. If I was in a similar position I'd take it to court, but if for some reason I wanted to do trial by media, I'd be gushing with detail.
- boklm 12y ago
  It's not telling. Whether what you say is true or not, in either case it would be risky to attach your name to something like this.
hntaway1 12y ago
obvious that it's z holman.
- elliotanderson 12y ago
  Based on what evidence?
  - FireBeyond 12y ago
    "Recently promoted to lead the engineering team", which I believed was ZH.
sseveran 12y ago
This whole episode has reminded me that when I start my next company we will have a non-fraternization clause.
neilk 12y ago
Anonymous allegations are worthless unless other Githubbers can confirm this.
- kelnos 12y ago
  Why? You'd still have the same sense of doubt as to whether or not the non-anonymous person is telling the truth. The only extra information you'd have is a) you'd know it was coming from another GitHubber who could conceivably know these details, and b) if you know the person, you can weigh the words against his/her reputation and past action. Not saying those two things aren't useful, but I would certainly not characterize this anon blog post as "worthless" by any stretch of the imagination. In fact, it makes the whole situation make a lot more sense. The original one-sided account from Ms. Horvath always sounded a bit implausible to me, at least without more information to frame it.
  - SEMW 12y ago
    > Why? You'd still have the same sense of doubt as to whether or not the non-anonymous person is telling the truth. The senses of doubt will only be ~the same if your prior for the probability of "someone out of ~200 github employees would lie about this and attach their name to it" is about the same as your prior for "someone out of the other ~3,000,000,000 people on the internet would pretend to be a github employee and make this up". The larger someone's prior is for the latter relative to the former, the more worthless an anonymous blogpost is to them.
    - neilk 12y ago
      Adding to what SEMW said: for all we know, this story could be pure fiction, written by the Preston-Warners themselves, or someone else with a strong incentive to do so. The fact that this story helps everything "make sense" is not a useful heuristic. Anybody can craft this kind of tale, and it might also be playing on our prejudices - the spurned, jealous, bitchy lover narrative. But, as for myself, I don't have to make any judgment, nor do I want to. I don't want to do is pick a side based on my prejudices and a few blog posts. By now we all should know that women are routinely harassed in tech companies to a preposterous degree. On the other hand, I've seen cases where mentally disturbed people invent (or self-delude) incredibly detailed narratives of persecution. We could be dealing with a situation where one, the other, both, or neither is happening. If you have evidence that settles the case, by all means please post it. Something that is clear is that Github's investigation was flawed. And if Horvath really wasn't contacted until late in the process, it certainly makes it look like Github was more interested in a coverup than the truth.
LordHumungous 12y ago
Sounds plausible, but without a name to back it up it is nothing but hearsay.
- kelnos 12y ago
  Even with a name to back it up, it's still hearsay. I agree that it seems plausible, though, and does make a bit of sense given the rest of what we've all heard.

by hntaway 12y ago

An anonymous post on medium by github insiders: https://medium.com/p/d96f431f4e8e https://medium.com/p/d96f431f4e8e Unfortunate that it is anonymous, but it is still worth reading in my opinion.

deleted 12y ago

[deleted]

wlesieutre 12y ago
Really? I must have missed the part where people were burned alive or had their heads chopped off.
- wlesieutre 12y ago
  For reference, parent comment was along the lines of "Woah. This is crazier than Game of Thrones!" Maybe an attempt at humor, but it's really not.

TodPunk 12y ago

This is probably the most relevant article of the 6 or so I've read in the comments. It shows both sides as human and lacking good social management constructs for the situation. Reading several weeks of Horvath's twitter feed and several articles where she's quoted, it's apparent to me that regardless of what happened at Github, she is a bitter and dramatic individual. That's NOT the kind of person that backs down to the adult-talk at the table. Again, I don't know what happened at github, and I honestly don't care. What I do know is that I would never hire Horvath regardless of what she could do for the company. Far too much risk, and exemplified with a terribly immature response even if everything she says is true.

stefantalpalaru 12y ago

Those details completely change the story. Why not make them public when the scandal erupted instead of a month afterwards? Now that the subject is dead and buried there will probably be no journalistic investigation.

leccine 12y ago

Wow, this actually makes the rest of the story more clear.

bitlord_219 12y ago

It's telling that nobody would attach their name to the article. Horvath's already publicly laughed it off.

nailer 12y ago
What was her alternate version of the missing events? It's hard to believe the techCrunch story when it starts so late in the game. If I was in a similar position I'd take it to court, but if for some reason I wanted to do trial by media, I'd be gushing with detail.
boklm 12y ago
It's not telling. Whether what you say is true or not, in either case it would be risky to attach your name to something like this.

hntaway1 12y ago

obvious that it's z holman.

elliotanderson 12y ago
Based on what evidence?
- FireBeyond 12y ago
  "Recently promoted to lead the engineering team", which I believed was ZH.

sseveran 12y ago

This whole episode has reminded me that when I start my next company we will have a non-fraternization clause.

neilk 12y ago

Anonymous allegations are worthless unless other Githubbers can confirm this.

kelnos 12y ago
Why? You'd still have the same sense of doubt as to whether or not the non-anonymous person is telling the truth. The only extra information you'd have is a) you'd know it was coming from another GitHubber who could conceivably know these details, and b) if you know the person, you can weigh the words against his/her reputation and past action. Not saying those two things aren't useful, but I would certainly not characterize this anon blog post as "worthless" by any stretch of the imagination. In fact, it makes the whole situation make a lot more sense. The original one-sided account from Ms. Horvath always sounded a bit implausible to me, at least without more information to frame it.
- SEMW 12y ago
  > Why? You'd still have the same sense of doubt as to whether or not the non-anonymous person is telling the truth. The senses of doubt will only be ~the same if your prior for the probability of "someone out of ~200 github employees would lie about this and attach their name to it" is about the same as your prior for "someone out of the other ~3,000,000,000 people on the internet would pretend to be a github employee and make this up". The larger someone's prior is for the latter relative to the former, the more worthless an anonymous blogpost is to them.
  - neilk 12y ago
    Adding to what SEMW said: for all we know, this story could be pure fiction, written by the Preston-Warners themselves, or someone else with a strong incentive to do so. The fact that this story helps everything "make sense" is not a useful heuristic. Anybody can craft this kind of tale, and it might also be playing on our prejudices - the spurned, jealous, bitchy lover narrative. But, as for myself, I don't have to make any judgment, nor do I want to. I don't want to do is pick a side based on my prejudices and a few blog posts. By now we all should know that women are routinely harassed in tech companies to a preposterous degree. On the other hand, I've seen cases where mentally disturbed people invent (or self-delude) incredibly detailed narratives of persecution. We could be dealing with a situation where one, the other, both, or neither is happening. If you have evidence that settles the case, by all means please post it. Something that is clear is that Github's investigation was flawed. And if Horvath really wasn't contacted until late in the process, it certainly makes it look like Github was more interested in a coverup than the truth.

LordHumungous 12y ago

Sounds plausible, but without a name to back it up it is nothing but hearsay.

kelnos 12y ago
Even with a name to back it up, it's still hearsay. I agree that it seems plausible, though, and does make a bit of sense given the rest of what we've all heard.