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Farewell GitHub, Hello Immersive Computing
- jusben1369 12y agoI thought it strange he dedicated real estate on this posting to his wife's new project. Seems a bit tone deaf given the thrust of the incident appeared to be the fact that his wife had oversized influence at GitHub.
- gdubs 12y agoIt's his personal site...
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- rch 12y agohttps://github.com/blog/1823-results-of-the-github-investigation https://github.com/blog/1823-results-of-the-github-investiga... https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7623281 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7623281
- rst 12y agoNote that the Github blog post briefly summarizes the results of the investigation (acknowledging "errors in judgment" from Preston-Werner and wife but nothing else), but that's basically it --- nothing at all about who the investigators talked to, or about what. And no response whatever to Horvath's specific accusations (e.g., about a coworker sabotaging her work after she turned him down for a date).
- danielweber 12y agoSaying anything about who the investigators are, who they talked to, or what they talked about is probably an extremely unwise move. You and I and most people on HN will probably never the report, just like we won't see Ms. Horvath's HR file. That's okay.
- dsl 12y agoThere is a huge minefield of HR laws they have to step around. You basically can't discuss anything publicly.
- benaiah 12y agoIt was the #1 story on HN when you posted this. Still is.
- simondlr 12y agoPlease tell me he is going to work on VR coding! This can't come soon enough. Multiple screens (more than the usual 2), more visualizations. Epic.
- lsaferite 12y agoOnce I realized how a VR headset working in AR mode could do away with my multiple monitor setup, I was overjoyed. Now the tech needs to catch up with the possibility.
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- awnird 12y agoWill his wife also have access to private servers at his new company?
- tptacek 12y agoBest of luck to you both.
- yukichan 12y ago> ...the results of GitHub's independent investigation unequivocally confirm this and we are prepared to fight any further false claims on this matter to the full extent of the law. Seems like a legal threat to Horvath if she speaks up about this again.
- aaronblohowiak 12y agoSeems like a promise to defend one's public identity from attack. Burden of proof lies on the accuser, not on the accused.
- danielweber 12y agoIn science, maybe. But in American courts, if I call you a dog-fornicator, you generally have to prove to the court you aren't a dog-fornicator to get damages. (Plus a bunch of other stuff, like actual damages, unless it's per-se defamation, except if . . . . There's a lot that could be added to this, hence my "generally.")
- baddox 12y ago> in American courts, if I call you a dog-fornicator, you generally have to prove to the court you aren't a dog-fornicator to get damages. To get damages? That's another issue. In American courts, the accused would not have to prove to the court that they aren't a dog fornicator. The prosecution has to prove you the accused is guilty.
- mikeash 12y agoIf you're attempting to get damages, then you are the accuser, and naturally the burden of proof falls on you.
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- tptacek 12y agoThat's definitely the most dramatic possible interpretation, and is thus the one the Internet will fixate on. Giant crowds of uninformed bystanders can be counted on never to pick the most boring narrative.
- vowelless 12y agoAs a fan of his technical work and leadership of Github, I wish him the best of luck and am excited to see what he comes up with.
- calibraxis 12y ago> we are prepared to fight any further false claims on this matter to the full extent of the law. You'll "strive to do better"? Maybe cut down on the legal threats against subordinates who speak out against you... > The results of GitHub's independent investigation unequivocally confirm this Do bosses know how employees with critical-thinking skills perceive such claims? (In my experience: with contempt.) > I'm also insanely excited about the future. Like Tom Cruise? Pathologically happy in situations where sane people would be rather bummed, perhaps self-critical or contemplative?
- oldgun 12y agoToo sad about this. Wish him a good start somewhere else and build equally amazing products.
- jw2013 12y agoCan anybody tell me what company he is starting? From the article it seems vague and probably he does not even have a specific idea yet. Would love to join if the plan is more specific.
- arfliw 12y agoIt's obviously not a "company" yet. Shoot him an email and ask what his plans are.
- facepalm 12y agoAll the other crap aside, I kind of envy him for getting into VR now. The recent news about Oculus, and reading "Masters Of Doom", have somehow given me a renewed excitement for the field again. What if those snow crash visions could become a reality after all? (Sans the sword fighting, I think it is not possible because of the speed of light?). I'd be excited to work in that area, but I have no idea how to go about it in a sensible way. I mean how could I contribute as a single individual, without having a company on my hands?
- general_failure 12y agoTotally agree here. I have not seen any major innovations come out from github recently. It's a great product already and something phenomenal has to happen to make me take notice. In VR, I imagine the barriers to making an impression are lot lesser.
- issaria 12y agoOh, you must have forgotten Atom
- shurcooL 12y ago> During my time away from GitHub I started experimenting with Go, OpenGL, and Unity with an eye towards the software side of immersive computing. That is extremely exciting to me. It's no secret I'm a big fan of Go, and seeing someone as influential as Tom pick it up is great to hear. I'm looking forward to following what comes out of this.
- humanrebar 12y agoGo is an odd choice for such a graphics-heavy domain. If it works out well, I'll be very interested to hear more about that combination of technologies.
- kyrra 12y agoIt's just as odd as using OpenGL from Java, right? The main issue I've seen people have with Go and using it for gaming or heavy graphics use is that it is garbage collected. But compared to the Java Hotspot runtime, it's gc isn't nearly as robust.
- humanrebar 12y agoI think calling OpenGL from Java for performance-critical applications is an odd choice as well. I think the relative performance of native versus ART android apps is a good example of that. Not that it's impossible to keep framerates up using GCed languages. But framerate will be extremely important for applications that more or less require screens with higher refresh rates than commodity LCDs.
- Crito 12y agoFor whatever it is worth, Notch has said that when Oculus initially approached him for Minecraft on the Oculus, he identified performance being an issue as the Oculus would require a steady 90fps, which Minecraft would struggle to provide on some hardware. He identified using Java as one of the reasons that this was the case. Before the Mojang/Oculus connection was severed in the Facebook/Oculus fallout, the plan was apparently to make a stripped down version of Minecraft, similar to Pocket or Pi, for the Oculus. (http://notch.net/2014/03/virtual-reality-is-going-to-change-the-world/)* http://notch.net/2014/03/virtual-reality-is-going-to-change-...
- rdl 12y agoTangentially, his wife's startup https://omakasecharity.org/ https://omakasecharity.org/ actually looks pretty interesting; one of the most exciting things of the past year has been how tech people (YC, etc.) have gotten involved in new kinds of charities, rather than just donating to existing ones. I guess I'd argue Bill Gates was the one who kicked this all off, with a strict program of accountability, but the smaller startups actually use technology to accomplish their missions in a new and more effective way.
- judk 12y agoFounding new charities has been the hobby of wealthy society types since time immemorial. It is much more ego-stroking than joining one of the many groups already doing great work.
- rrggrr 12y ago"I tried to treat people better than they expected" Is it me or does this sound horribly arrogant?
- mildtrepidation 12y agoNot necessarily. As a small business owner, I aspire to this as well, if only because my experience has been "I expect my employers to get all they can out of my while paying me the bare minimum and treating me as poorly as I'll tolerate." Granted, this is just my perspective, but that does suggest that this statement can mean various things depending on who you are and how you've been treated yourself.
- crusso 12y agoI don't read it that way at all. I read it that he tries to exceed people's expectations in his personal relations. If it sounds "horribly arrogant", then I think that sounds horribly negative and judgemental.
- swombat 12y agoDoesn't sound arrogant to me either. It's a bit like saying "I tried to exceed my customers' expectations"... in fact, it means exactly that...
- Jare 12y agoIt would be arrogant if it said "I treated people better than they deserved".
- atonse 12y agoI really don't understand some of these responses: 1) GitHub doesn't owe us the details of the investigation - what difference does it make to anyone apart from creating more fodder for gossip? This is an internal company matter. 2) Regarding Tom's "threat" - This is pretty much the largest "resolution" that could've come out of this, right? Some of Horvath's allegations were true and a high-profile founder has resigned. The way I read it was: What more is there to do? I think that's what he means. "I've resigned, isn't that enough? If you want to keep pursuing it, what's left to seek? At that point it's personal and my wife and I will respond appropriately."
- Pacabel 12y agoI don't think that anyone is claiming that GitHub "owes" the community the details. While this may have been an "internal company matter" initially, it did eventually become very public. There has already been a huge amount of speculation out in the open regarding whatever might have happened in this case, much of it quite negative. So given all of this speculation and gossip, it's not at all surprising that there are people, including users and customers of GitHub, who just want some facts. And there's nothing unreasonable about them requesting such information, especially when it's paying customers doing the asking.
- yawboakye 12y ago> ... especially when it's paying customers doing the asking. Bullshit. I'm a paying GitHub customer ($7/mo) and I'm not interested in the details. I think I'm more interested in the company recovering as quickly as possible to deliver more awesomeness. How does asking for unnecessary detail help that?
- Pacabel 12y agoIt's fine that you don't care about this information. But that in no way means that others hold the same view as you. There are people and organizations paying significantly more each month than you are, and they're very likely using GitHub in a way that's far more critical to their operations than it may be for you. For some customers or potential customers, the factual details regarding this case are more important than I think you realize. They need the facts to help decide if they want to keep using GitHub going forward, or if they even want to adopt it in the first place. Without the facts, they have to sift through rampant speculation, trying to make educated guesses at what's plausible and how it may affect them, their source code, their obligations, and their continued operation as a business. Part of the "recovery" involves getting factual information out there so that existing and new customers aren't faced with uncertainty. Somebody paying $7 per month might not care, but people and organizations paying $200 or more very well may.
- n72 12y agoJeez, so when does The Wives of Silicon Valley start? The whole tech scene in SF has turned into such a little soap opera, cult of personality, wank fest.
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- taude 12y agoHence the popularity of that Secret App.
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- itazula 12y agoI know that complaining about tone is low on Paul Graham's hierarchy of disagreement, but "I'm telling you this because I think stealth mode is bullshit" doesn't exactly win me over. I'm glad my dog doesn't talk that way to me.
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- mundanevoice 12y agoIf you haven't read already, check this: https://medium.com/p/d96f431f4e8e https://medium.com/p/d96f431f4e8e She did a lot of wrong things: - Dating a coworker is not one of the best practise. - gossiping around about your co-workers/founders character is the also not the best thing to do. - If you write shit code, your code will be removed. She is definitely not known for her coding abilities. She is just a melodrama queen who is bad at heart, opportunist, blackmailed founder to poison the company atmosphere. - You can create a healthy workspace shouting "Women Women" every time. We work with women too. Our behaviour and respect is based on compassion and professionalism. They are just like any other person in the company. - The real story must have been that she is a bad/mediocre developer who was being reviewed which didn't turned out pretty well (Obv since she was busy bitching against coworkers). The only good way she had to abuse and insult the company publically , get sympathy and then a Job. She seems to have good PR skills. (Pun intended) Again, here are some of her recent tweets: https://twitter.com/nrrrdcore/status/458347574672388096 https://twitter.com/nrrrdcore/status/458347574672388096 https://twitter.com/nrrrdcore/status/458345005866696704 https://twitter.com/nrrrdcore/status/458345005866696704
- xiaoma 12y agoHere's my one and only interaction with the author: I met Tom a couple of years ago when I first got to SF. It was at a bar in the mission that was holding an international get together for github users. I'll never forget the impression he made on me. We talked for a good while, most about drawing. Since I was totally new to town (and had spent most my adult life outside the US), I had no idea who he was. I'd used github but didn't know much about it and certainly didn't know who he was. I love drawing and sketching and it was actually via a flash game tutorial on Kongretate.com that I found my first serious entry point into programming. Telling Tom about this, he started talking about drawing octocats and the entire conversation was about artwork. Until someone told me otherwise about half an hour later, I thought he was the "octocat guy", an artist who happened to be at a nice company. It's really rare in my life when I've been shocked by someone's humility and congeniality, but meeting Tom was one of those times. I'll also say that in the intervening two years, I've gotten to know the product quite well and really hope the best both for Github and his upcoming venture. Edit: I've been an HN user since almost the beginning and I have to say this is saddening. It boggles the mind that sharing a brief story of meeting with author of the piece and wishes for the success of both Github and the future venture is something that warrants multiple down votes.