7 ms·

This is slightly off topic but I spend a lot of time on /r/bitcoin (I have done for about two years now). Over the past 60 days there has been a sustained attac

by drcross 13y ago

This is slightly off topic but I spend a lot of time on /r/bitcoin (I have done for about two years now). Over the past 60 days there has been a sustained attack by some group or entity, I am sure of this. The subtilty of attack is really astonishing, I never thought that I would witness something with coordination that seems on a scale of a nation state. These users are employing advanced techniques to trip up and stall discussion, causing in-fighting, promote other agendas (really gently) and just generally destroy the group. In times like this we need heavy moderation to stop it in it's tracks until everything clears up.

DanBC 13y ago
A small number of dedicated coordinated trolls can destroy a forum, especially when users do not have the discipline to ignore the trolls. alt.syntax.tactical was really good at this (at the beginning). Even a shitty group like snuh good cause havoc if it took off on Reddit.
FroshKiller 13y ago
This sounds really paranoid. Do you have some concrete evidence? What does "coordination on a scale of a nation state" even look like with respect to a subreddit?
- etherael 13y ago
  I think he's onto something also. There will be some heavily upvoted story that soaks a lot of attention and the top comment will be some throwaway nonsense to promote the "Bitcoin is not serious/is just a scam/this is all bullshit" angle, any reasonable comments will be downvoted in righteous fury, any suggestions that something untoward is going on even more so. This will go on for about a day, then a couple days later the exact same topic will come up again, and the response will be completely normal and the shill brigade obviously absent. See this for example, shill brigade in effect; http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/22zl2w/bitcoin_among_list_of_keywords_that_earn_an/ http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/22zl2w/bitcoin_amon... And a day later, same subject, shill brigade absent; http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/23495x/reddit_mods_are_censoring_dozens_of_words_from/ http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/23495x/reddit_mods_... This is not the only time I have seen this happen there, just the most obvious instance.
- drcross 13y ago
  I agree on the surface it seems paranoid, here are my data points- I'm a reasonable person of sound body and mind and very well socialised (I'm certain that I don't have a mental illness). I've been on the sub since there were 20k users, there are now 120k I've helped countless newbies and formed relationships with other long term users of the sub who also have a high reputation. I've made many high quality posts on bitcoin data analysis (and a few crappy memes along the way). Something is definitely different in the past few months, and a lot of the other old timers would agree with me, the subject matter is not normal. I have loads of anecdotal "Wait a minute, that not the way things are meant to work" situations, where some comments are being downvoted and upvoted abnormally. Some comments are meant to only confuse you or deride the conversation and bring it off topic. Some threads are calling into question the Mods and their motives. Some comments on threads are pushing the traditional banking system benefits. There has been an influx of 0 day users who seem to speak on authority about financial instruments. These are not trolls. Some users will reply with what seems like a positive post and then flip completely 180 degrees by the end of their reply. What I'm trying to say is that the human neural network pattern matching machine is incredibly good at finding inconsistencies, my alarm bells are ringing, there is some organisation at work in the sub. I would like to start gathering data on the extend of this by comparing users account age, their topic of conversation and the techniques they use. I'll need some help from my trusted friends on /r/bitcoin and I'm still coming up with the process on the best way to collect information to prove or disprove my hypothesis.
  - rasz_pl 13y ago
    >What I'm trying to say is that the human neural network >pattern matching machine is incredibly good at finding >inconsistencies, my alarm bells are ringing, there is some >organisation at work in the sub. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apophenia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apophenia
    - ZenPro 13y ago
      That a nice link and possibly true but equally there is compelling evidence to suggest people with experience are highly attuned to a change in environment despite being unable to articulate why. Malcolm Gladwells Blink dealt with the issue.
baby 13y ago
I actually have to agree, /r/bitcoin is one of the subreddit I spend most of my time in. There is kind of a "mob" that tries to promote bitcoin in all other subreddits and kill any unpleasant topic in /r/bitcoin. But this is not surprising as some people are heavily invested in bitcoins. It just kills intelligent discussions on the subreddit sometimes. Also, /r/technology wouldn't have been erased from the defaults if it was not for /r/bitcoin, everything started there (because the word "bitcoin" was banned from /r/technology).
- samstave 13y ago
  they have been honing their shill skills in /r/conspiracy for a few years now...
rasz_pl 13y ago
Yes. Im sure it has nothing to do with bitcoin being a scam that is in the final stages after most of scammers/speculators already cashed out. What is left is a LOT of people that 'invested' at $800-1000 and are very angry now.
- ZenPro 13y ago
  I am no fan of Bitcoin but that is pretty much nonsense given that one of the major holders of Bitcoin is IBM and it's subsidiaries who view it as a medium of exchange far removed from it's current guise.

by drcross 13y ago

DanBC 13y ago

A small number of dedicated coordinated trolls can destroy a forum, especially when users do not have the discipline to ignore the trolls. alt.syntax.tactical was really good at this (at the beginning). Even a shitty group like snuh good cause havoc if it took off on Reddit.

FroshKiller 13y ago

This sounds really paranoid. Do you have some concrete evidence? What does "coordination on a scale of a nation state" even look like with respect to a subreddit?

etherael 13y ago
I think he's onto something also. There will be some heavily upvoted story that soaks a lot of attention and the top comment will be some throwaway nonsense to promote the "Bitcoin is not serious/is just a scam/this is all bullshit" angle, any reasonable comments will be downvoted in righteous fury, any suggestions that something untoward is going on even more so. This will go on for about a day, then a couple days later the exact same topic will come up again, and the response will be completely normal and the shill brigade obviously absent. See this for example, shill brigade in effect; http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/22zl2w/bitcoin_among_list_of_keywords_that_earn_an/ http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/22zl2w/bitcoin_amon... And a day later, same subject, shill brigade absent; http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/23495x/reddit_mods_are_censoring_dozens_of_words_from/ http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/23495x/reddit_mods_... This is not the only time I have seen this happen there, just the most obvious instance.
drcross 13y ago
I agree on the surface it seems paranoid, here are my data points- I'm a reasonable person of sound body and mind and very well socialised (I'm certain that I don't have a mental illness). I've been on the sub since there were 20k users, there are now 120k I've helped countless newbies and formed relationships with other long term users of the sub who also have a high reputation. I've made many high quality posts on bitcoin data analysis (and a few crappy memes along the way). Something is definitely different in the past few months, and a lot of the other old timers would agree with me, the subject matter is not normal. I have loads of anecdotal "Wait a minute, that not the way things are meant to work" situations, where some comments are being downvoted and upvoted abnormally. Some comments are meant to only confuse you or deride the conversation and bring it off topic. Some threads are calling into question the Mods and their motives. Some comments on threads are pushing the traditional banking system benefits. There has been an influx of 0 day users who seem to speak on authority about financial instruments. These are not trolls. Some users will reply with what seems like a positive post and then flip completely 180 degrees by the end of their reply. What I'm trying to say is that the human neural network pattern matching machine is incredibly good at finding inconsistencies, my alarm bells are ringing, there is some organisation at work in the sub. I would like to start gathering data on the extend of this by comparing users account age, their topic of conversation and the techniques they use. I'll need some help from my trusted friends on /r/bitcoin and I'm still coming up with the process on the best way to collect information to prove or disprove my hypothesis.
- rasz_pl 13y ago
  >What I'm trying to say is that the human neural network >pattern matching machine is incredibly good at finding >inconsistencies, my alarm bells are ringing, there is some >organisation at work in the sub. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apophenia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apophenia
  - ZenPro 13y ago
    That a nice link and possibly true but equally there is compelling evidence to suggest people with experience are highly attuned to a change in environment despite being unable to articulate why. Malcolm Gladwells Blink dealt with the issue.

baby 13y ago

I actually have to agree, /r/bitcoin is one of the subreddit I spend most of my time in. There is kind of a "mob" that tries to promote bitcoin in all other subreddits and kill any unpleasant topic in /r/bitcoin. But this is not surprising as some people are heavily invested in bitcoins. It just kills intelligent discussions on the subreddit sometimes. Also, /r/technology wouldn't have been erased from the defaults if it was not for /r/bitcoin, everything started there (because the word "bitcoin" was banned from /r/technology).

samstave 13y ago
they have been honing their shill skills in /r/conspiracy for a few years now...

rasz_pl 13y ago

Yes. Im sure it has nothing to do with bitcoin being a scam that is in the final stages after most of scammers/speculators already cashed out. What is left is a LOT of people that 'invested' at $800-1000 and are very angry now.

ZenPro 13y ago
I am no fan of Bitcoin but that is pretty much nonsense given that one of the major holders of Bitcoin is IBM and it's subsidiaries who view it as a medium of exchange far removed from it's current guise.