4 ms·

> Aereo can provide this service for so cheap because it's using someone else's content for free. They don't themselves create or provide anything users actuall

by evan_ 13y ago

> Aereo can provide this service for so cheap because it's using someone else's content for free. They don't themselves create or provide anything users actually want to buy--they just distribute the work of other people, and do so without compensating the people who created the products that are actually in demand. Imagine I pay Geek Squad, or some other handyman service, to come to my house and set up an antenna on my roof and hook it up to a DVR. I can't imagine anyone saying that either I or my handyman has done anything wrong. What is Aereo doing that's different? The only difference is that the wire between the DVR and my television is longer. > its Rube Goldberg machinations are clearly just away to sidestep the law. It would be a whole lot easier for everyone involved if they could just use ONE antenna. The whole Rube Goldberg machinations are to comply with the law.

rayiner 13y ago
> The only difference is that the wire between the DVR and my television is longer. Hardly. The major difference is who owns and controls the equipment, and what other equipment they own and control. By your reasoning the only difference between inviting my friends over to watch a DVD and a movie theater is that the latter involves a bigger screen and more "friends." It's the kind of reductionist argument that lawyers and engineers love but ring hollow in terms of common sense.
- evan_ 13y ago
  > The major difference is who owns and controls the equipment, and what other equipment they own and control. OK, I rent my DVR from the cable company, surely you're as upset about that as you are about Aereo? Since the equipment is owned and controlled by a corporation that's not paying for the production of the television? > By your reasoning the only difference between inviting my friends over to watch a DVD and a movie theater is that the latter involves a bigger screen and more "friends." I don't see how this makes any sense or is relevant at all, sorry.
  - rayiner 13y ago
    > OK, I rent my DVR from the cable company, surely you're as upset about that as you are about Aereo? Since the equipment is owned and controlled by a corporation that's not paying for the production of the television? By that reasoning, a leased car is the same as a taxi. > I don't see how this makes any sense or is relevant at all, sorry. My point is that you're focusing on one dimension ("the length of the wire") and saying that two situations are analogous because they differ only in the quantity of that one dimension. But that's not the only way in which the two situations differ. Along other dimensions, there's a huge difference between a handyman installing an antenna in your house and Aereo streaming TV shows over the internet.
    - evan_ 13y ago
      > Along other dimensions, there's a huge difference between a handyman installing an antenna in your house and Aereo streaming TV shows over the internet. And yet you can't seem to articulate what the difference is, other than that DVDs are the same as taxis, or something.
      - rayiner 13y ago
        A DVR, whether leased or purchased outright, as a piece of equipment totally under the control of an individual user, and present on the individual user's personal premises. Aereo does not provide "equipment rental." It provides a service using equipment that it owns and totally controls. In that sense, the difference between a rented DVR and Aereo's service is very similar to the difference between a leased car and a taxi cab. Similarly, while you say that the "only difference" between Aereo's service and having your own antenna is the "length of the wire" that statement ignores all the other dimensions along which the two situations differ, and is reductionist in the same way as saying that the "only difference between a movie theater and watching a DVD with friends is the size of the screen and the number of friends. It's overly reductionist. The positioning in the market of the two experiences is totally different. The ownership structure and profit motive is totally different. Your whole position depends on drawing these reductionist analogies and saying two situations are the same. Applying similar reasoning to other situations, however, shows that such reasoning leads to conclusions that defy common sense. Of course a leased car is not the same as a cab, and of course a movie night with friends is not the same as running a movie theater. But if you ignore ownership and control of the equipment and the market structure of the operation, as you are doing by analogizing Aereo to an "antenna with a long wire," then you can make such counterintuitive conclusions.
gamblor956 13y ago
The differences between your a Geek Squad-installed DVR and Aereo: - The GS DVR actually, physically exists and can be owned by the user. The Aereo DVR is a software service product (i.e., a SaaS, which cannot be owned). - The antenna you own can be controlled by you--you can change its position, fix its location, or uninstall it. You cannot control the Aereo antenna, nor do you own it. - The GS DVR connects to its source(s) and display directly. The Aereo DVR connects to its source over a multitude of cables and intervening hardware, and connects to the user's display over the internet, passing through numerous routers, switches, and hubs along the way. - The data received over your antenna is unique to the specific reception qualities of your antenna. The Aereo antenna in your proposed single-antenna solution yields a common data stream. (This is the key legal turning point of the lawsuit.)

by evan_ 13y ago

rayiner 13y ago

> The only difference is that the wire between the DVR and my television is longer. Hardly. The major difference is who owns and controls the equipment, and what other equipment they own and control. By your reasoning the only difference between inviting my friends over to watch a DVD and a movie theater is that the latter involves a bigger screen and more "friends." It's the kind of reductionist argument that lawyers and engineers love but ring hollow in terms of common sense.

evan_ 13y ago
> The major difference is who owns and controls the equipment, and what other equipment they own and control. OK, I rent my DVR from the cable company, surely you're as upset about that as you are about Aereo? Since the equipment is owned and controlled by a corporation that's not paying for the production of the television? > By your reasoning the only difference between inviting my friends over to watch a DVD and a movie theater is that the latter involves a bigger screen and more "friends." I don't see how this makes any sense or is relevant at all, sorry.
- rayiner 13y ago
  > OK, I rent my DVR from the cable company, surely you're as upset about that as you are about Aereo? Since the equipment is owned and controlled by a corporation that's not paying for the production of the television? By that reasoning, a leased car is the same as a taxi. > I don't see how this makes any sense or is relevant at all, sorry. My point is that you're focusing on one dimension ("the length of the wire") and saying that two situations are analogous because they differ only in the quantity of that one dimension. But that's not the only way in which the two situations differ. Along other dimensions, there's a huge difference between a handyman installing an antenna in your house and Aereo streaming TV shows over the internet.
  - evan_ 13y ago
    > Along other dimensions, there's a huge difference between a handyman installing an antenna in your house and Aereo streaming TV shows over the internet. And yet you can't seem to articulate what the difference is, other than that DVDs are the same as taxis, or something.
    - rayiner 13y ago
      A DVR, whether leased or purchased outright, as a piece of equipment totally under the control of an individual user, and present on the individual user's personal premises. Aereo does not provide "equipment rental." It provides a service using equipment that it owns and totally controls. In that sense, the difference between a rented DVR and Aereo's service is very similar to the difference between a leased car and a taxi cab. Similarly, while you say that the "only difference" between Aereo's service and having your own antenna is the "length of the wire" that statement ignores all the other dimensions along which the two situations differ, and is reductionist in the same way as saying that the "only difference between a movie theater and watching a DVD with friends is the size of the screen and the number of friends. It's overly reductionist. The positioning in the market of the two experiences is totally different. The ownership structure and profit motive is totally different. Your whole position depends on drawing these reductionist analogies and saying two situations are the same. Applying similar reasoning to other situations, however, shows that such reasoning leads to conclusions that defy common sense. Of course a leased car is not the same as a cab, and of course a movie night with friends is not the same as running a movie theater. But if you ignore ownership and control of the equipment and the market structure of the operation, as you are doing by analogizing Aereo to an "antenna with a long wire," then you can make such counterintuitive conclusions.

gamblor956 13y ago

The differences between your a Geek Squad-installed DVR and Aereo: - The GS DVR actually, physically exists and can be owned by the user. The Aereo DVR is a software service product (i.e., a SaaS, which cannot be owned). - The antenna you own can be controlled by you--you can change its position, fix its location, or uninstall it. You cannot control the Aereo antenna, nor do you own it. - The GS DVR connects to its source(s) and display directly. The Aereo DVR connects to its source over a multitude of cables and intervening hardware, and connects to the user's display over the internet, passing through numerous routers, switches, and hubs along the way. - The data received over your antenna is unique to the specific reception qualities of your antenna. The Aereo antenna in your proposed single-antenna solution yields a common data stream. (This is the key legal turning point of the lawsuit.)