4 ms·

> It's also interesting to be reminded that Stalin was indeed a guy who could talk about ideas. He was an very intelligent man who genuinely believed in what h

by maratd 13y ago

> It's also interesting to be reminded that Stalin was indeed a guy who could talk about ideas. He was an very intelligent man who genuinely believed in what he preached. Which is precisely why millions paid for his idealism with their lives.

lostlogin 13y ago
And a reason why the west survived the onslaught of the Axis powers -the sheer grit, determination and bloody mindedness of the Russians. I recently discovered that the fall of Berlin cost more Soviet lives than the whole war cost the UK. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II_casualties http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II_casualties
- maratd 13y ago
  > And a reason why the west survived the onslaught of the Axis powers The reason the West survived the Axis onslaught is because Hitler and his cohorts, unlike Stalin, were morons. Only an imbecile would open a second front with a country with which you have a non-aggression pact [1]. This highlights the frailties of intelligence nicely. Stalin was so thoroughly convinced that this was such a profound stupidity, that he refused to believe it even after receiving intelligence reports confirming as much. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molotov%E2%80%93Ribbentrop_Pact http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molotov%E2%80%93Ribbentrop_Pact
  - monochr 13y ago
    I am reminded of Churchill stopping the plan to kill Hitler after they had done pretty much all the hard work apart from killing him because he was afraid someone competent would rise to the top and (rather easily) fight the war to a standstill by letting the generals command their troops.
thaumasiotes 13y ago
In general, people who bring themselves to power tend to be extremely competent. Traditional classical Greek "tyrants" had a deserved reputation for solid, effective rule, but things would quickly fall apart after they died. So whatever else we can say about Stalin, there's every reason to expect that he'd be more than able to talk about ideas.
- rat87 13y ago
  > In general, people who bring themselves to power tend to be extremely competent. Traditional classical Greek "tyrants" had a deserved reputation for solid, effective rule, but things would quickly fall apart after they died. Millions of famine deaths under Stalin are attributed to some mix of malice and incompetence. I am not saying that he was totally incompetent. He helped usher in a ton of industrialization that helped the Soviet Union win WWII. He was also quite good at ruling through fear. But the utter incompetence of the agricultural collectivization makes me unable to label him competent on average.
  - thaumasiotes 13y ago
    This is a fairly general issue if you're looking at "competence". Without disagreeing with anything you said, let me ask the following: Assume you're going to collectivize agriculture. How well do you think that will go? What's the best achievable outcome?
    - AnimalMuppet 13y ago
      "Competence" might mean that you don't collectivize agriculture...
- marincounty 13y ago
  What? I guess George Bush was extremely competent? I have found people who bring themselves to power had a rich father. (This will get deleted. Whenever I talk about the lack of Horatio Alger's, especially in the last 30 years--moderators get angry.)
  - mh_yam 13y ago
    Bush was a very intelligent man contrary to what many believe. http://keithhennessey.com/2013/04/24/smarter/ http://keithhennessey.com/2013/04/24/smarter/
    - 13y ago

by maratd 13y ago

lostlogin 13y ago

And a reason why the west survived the onslaught of the Axis powers -the sheer grit, determination and bloody mindedness of the Russians. I recently discovered that the fall of Berlin cost more Soviet lives than the whole war cost the UK. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II_casualties http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II_casualties

maratd 13y ago
> And a reason why the west survived the onslaught of the Axis powers The reason the West survived the Axis onslaught is because Hitler and his cohorts, unlike Stalin, were morons. Only an imbecile would open a second front with a country with which you have a non-aggression pact [1]. This highlights the frailties of intelligence nicely. Stalin was so thoroughly convinced that this was such a profound stupidity, that he refused to believe it even after receiving intelligence reports confirming as much. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molotov%E2%80%93Ribbentrop_Pact http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molotov%E2%80%93Ribbentrop_Pact
- monochr 13y ago
  I am reminded of Churchill stopping the plan to kill Hitler after they had done pretty much all the hard work apart from killing him because he was afraid someone competent would rise to the top and (rather easily) fight the war to a standstill by letting the generals command their troops.

thaumasiotes 13y ago

In general, people who bring themselves to power tend to be extremely competent. Traditional classical Greek "tyrants" had a deserved reputation for solid, effective rule, but things would quickly fall apart after they died. So whatever else we can say about Stalin, there's every reason to expect that he'd be more than able to talk about ideas.

rat87 13y ago
> In general, people who bring themselves to power tend to be extremely competent. Traditional classical Greek "tyrants" had a deserved reputation for solid, effective rule, but things would quickly fall apart after they died. Millions of famine deaths under Stalin are attributed to some mix of malice and incompetence. I am not saying that he was totally incompetent. He helped usher in a ton of industrialization that helped the Soviet Union win WWII. He was also quite good at ruling through fear. But the utter incompetence of the agricultural collectivization makes me unable to label him competent on average.
- thaumasiotes 13y ago
  This is a fairly general issue if you're looking at "competence". Without disagreeing with anything you said, let me ask the following: Assume you're going to collectivize agriculture. How well do you think that will go? What's the best achievable outcome?
  - AnimalMuppet 13y ago
    "Competence" might mean that you don't collectivize agriculture...
marincounty 13y ago
What? I guess George Bush was extremely competent? I have found people who bring themselves to power had a rich father. (This will get deleted. Whenever I talk about the lack of Horatio Alger's, especially in the last 30 years--moderators get angry.)
- mh_yam 13y ago
  Bush was a very intelligent man contrary to what many believe. http://keithhennessey.com/2013/04/24/smarter/ http://keithhennessey.com/2013/04/24/smarter/
  - 13y ago