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Ask HN: Why HN is so ugly?

• reinier_s4g 12y ago
  ooops, and what about the auto-formatting of the posts? look how all my newlines were removed :| I know, i guess i could have used some HTML tags there, but really?
  • ColinWright 12y ago
    Your questions have been asked many times, both about the look'n'feel, and the formatting. The answers you seek are already here, if only you'd take the time to look.
    • reinier_s4g 12y ago
      Thanks for your reply, I just fixed the formatting of my question, still think that patching with more newlines is uncool though. Also, mine is more a proposal than a question...
      • 001sky 12y ago
        mine is more a proposal than a question... The title> "Why is HN so ugly..." Is a statement, more than either a proposal or a question. It's also presumptuous. Minimalism is a feature. Like exclusivity.
        • reinier_s4g 12y ago
          Sorry, it wasnt my intention to be presumptuous, just wanted to get your attention and looks like i have, so mission accomplished! :) I understand minimalism is a feature and actually is one feature i love, as you can see i'm not proposing getting rid of the minimalistic look and adding lots of easter bunnies everywhere or anything, i'm just focusing on readability and the most basic things, wouldn't you agree HN can benefit from this?
          • ColinWright 12y ago
            > ... just wanted to get your attention and > looks like i have, so mission accomplished! Yup - I'll certainly remember you, although maybe not for the reason you wanted.
            • reinier_s4g 12y ago
              As long as you can sleep well ...
      • ColinWright 12y ago
        You have asked a question, and then actually presented a bunch of proposals based on your biases and non-understandings of both the aims and the audience. Many, many proposals have been made for "improving" the interface. People have presented many alternatives. None have stuck, all have been critiqued. I you did some research you would see their fate. Are you so sure you really do know better? > "I wake up every morning to HN and my eyes hurt." Then write your own style sheets and GreaseMonkey script (or equivalent) to fix your rendered. When you're convinced you've got it right and it's significantly better, then offer it. And best of all, do some research on previous answers to this question and present a "proposal" that actually addressed the previous discussions.
• DanBC 12y ago
  Use extra linefeeds to get proper line spacing for lists. Or use some spaces before each line to format as code. Your auestion has been asked and answered quite a lot before, so you might find some interesting answers if you search.
• underyx 12y ago
  10. The measure for submission text and comment text is way too long (as in, full width.) 11. A large part of the style is defined via attributes.
• wetafur 12y ago
  Perhaps you should make a quick mockup to show how your redesign would look.
• uslic001 12y ago
  I use http://hckrnews.com/ http://hckrnews.com/ to read hackernews on desktop. The app I used on my phone was not updated for IOS 7 and I have not found a good replacement. I also use https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/hackernew/lgoghlndihpmbbgmbpjohilcphbfhddd https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/hackernew/lgoghlnd... to read hackernews in Chrome.
• read 12y ago
  The most important thing you can understand is that these concerns aren't the most important thing to worry about. Content is more important. Though, if you had to pick only one feature to work on next, mobile might be it. As for the rest: 2. they are 0 pixels from the side of the page, why? Are those numbers needed anyway? Why not? Besides the numbers telling you which page you are on, they also show how a story progresses in time. 3. With more padding and a bigger font everything should get much better to read and process Bigger does not equal better. 4. The colors seem old-fashion The colors make the site readable. Readability is more important than fashion. 7. it is so close and compact. That could be intentional. It focuses attention, for example. 8. If the limit is 2000 characters why i have to hit submit to find that out? Not displaying unnecessary things reduces cognitive load. Anything that takes 2000 characters to express is something that could be reduced in length anyway. 9. Ah, TABLE seriously? Tables are the lists of html. The ambiguity they introduce is not always an error. http://paulgraham.com/arc0.html http://paulgraham.com/arc0.html
  • krapp 12y ago
    >Bigger does not equal better. It doesn't equal bloat either. But where typography is concerned, particularly on mobile, it can definitely equal "more legible." Readability should certainly be a concern on a forum. I would argue it should be one of the top concerns. For instance, to me, the leading between lines here is way too small. That's an easy thing to fix. >Not displaying unnecessary things reduces cognitive load. Anything that takes 2000 characters to express is something that could be reduced in length anyway. It would not tax anyone's mind to the breaking point to tell them what the character limit is, even assuming your latter statement tends to be correct. The ultimate expression of that philosophy is twitter anyway - longer comments are not necessarily worse, and a word limit doesn't necessarily guarantee quality. >Tables are the lists of html. The ambiguity they introduce is not always an error Actually, lists are already the lists of html. Tables are meant for rows and columns. Using them to show comment trees seems unnecessarily redundant because there's already an element for that. Although, granted, that is the least important of the issues at hand.
  • reinier_s4g 12y ago
    2. Agreed, so we leave the numbers along, but some spacing won't harm. 3. Right, not always, but in this case i think it will, things will get more readable. 4. Well, i think the current colors doesn't make the site specially readable, not that it makes it unreadable, just that it doesn't specially help with readability. 7. In my experience if you put a lot of content on top of each other with almost no spacing people will just get lost, luckily HN's audience is not the common folk, but does that justifies this? 8. I don't think adding a character counter or just a message letting you know will overflow the cognitive load, and the user hitting submit to find it out is just wrong IMHO. 9. Hmm, tables are the tables of HTML, <ul> and <ol> are lists of HTML.
• PeterWhittaker 12y ago
  I reject the premise of the question. For the most part, I find HN far more usable than most web sites1. My operational definition of "usable"? It is easy and effortless to scan headlines, to scan articles, and, when I find something of interest, to switch mentally from scan to read mode. And - and this is very important to me - it works well with the FF extension I use to mark all unvisited links as read, so that I don't notice them next time1. Most other web sites are simply too busy, too loaded, trying to hard to impress to usefully support this scan, open-in-new-tab, then read mode of operation (I still do it elsewhere, but it requires more effort on all other sites than HN). Is HN ugly? I honestly have no idea. Maybe it is, but it stays out of my way, so I don't care. 1 use hckrnews.com to find articles to read - by opening in new tabs - simply because it has more articles on one page than HN; really, that's it: If the main HN page was longer, I'd visit it once, just like I do with hckrnews.com, then alt-f2 to mark all as read - as it is, I have to scan-open-altF2-next-repeat, which is tedious. Not effortful, but not seamless, either.
• shearnie 12y ago
  I'm always zooming in and tilting my phone to landscape when reading HN comments. The comments section I read the most and it sucks on mobile.
• BinaryAcid 12y ago
  It's ironic. We're all about disrupting and innovation except for our own sacred link sharing site. The answer you will get every time from these guys: Its good enough. Some perspective: Its 2014 and HN isn't mobile friendly #wtf
  • krapp 12y ago
    I think there is an argument to be made that a site like this can be both minimalist and accessible, and that the dichotomy between a feature-rich HN and a HN with quality comments is possibly false, borne out of a lingering fear of a slippery slope leading to Reddit. Elitism may play a part in that - a better looking, more accessible site might by definition attract more people, and more people would dilute the quality of the discussion pool. I've seen 'features' like the awkward structure of nested comments, the broken pagination, etc. described (granted, by people who probably wouldn't actually know) as ways of keeping the riff-raff at bay. OR maybe it's essentially a hobby site written to justify an obscure and difficult to wrangle Lisp dialect that only a couple of people ever work on, and it's literally not worth the time for at least one of them to tweak. I think dang has mentioned they're working on adding some stuff anyway so... who knows?