4 ms·

> software developers are as a demographic cohort terrible at negotiating. Yep. It's no real surprise that coders are mostly men with poor social skills, whil

> software developers are as a demographic cohort terrible at negotiating. Yep. It's no real surprise that coders are mostly men with poor social skills, while HR is mostly women with good ones, most of whom those men find attractive. Classic Valley symbiosis.

1stop 13y ago
I think that is just poor stereotyping. Most of the software developers I've worked with in my career have had very good social skills, those that didn't, were poor developers as well... So are they bad negotiators because of they lack negotiating ability, or actual ability? Is there data on the social skills of IT, HR, Gender breakdown etc... Perhaps what you are refering to is a U.S (?) phenomenon?
- kamaal 13y ago
  >> those that didn't, were poor developers as well... The fact that people with good social skills convinced you that they were good developers proves the comment made by the parent poster.
  - 1stop 13y ago
    I didn't say that, at all. I suggest you re-read. To clarify for those that are a bit slow(er): Their development skills convinced me they were good developers, their social skills just correlated.
- XorNot 13y ago
  The correct answer is that developers do not have, and are resistant to, unionization. As individuals they'll always have very little bargaining power, and most developers are pretty easily replaceable (especially before they're hired).
  - deleted 13y ago
    [deleted]
tptacek 13y ago
HR people do not as a rule do salary negotiation. You have to be a particularly "special" degree of bad at negotiating to end up out-negotiated by an HR person. I am sure there are companies that, by outward appearance, do have candidates negotiating with HR people after the interview is over. Step 1 in handling negotiation with those companies: realize that you are not negotiating with HR.
- droopyEyelids 13y ago
  This is a weird bit of advice. From my experience I have to assume you're saying "HR isn't the decision maker when hiring in elite tech companies" but the fact of the matter is HR/Recruiting is going to present the offer to most people, and it takes a career worth of preparation to move the conversation beyond that offer.
  - tptacek 13y ago
    Well, I'm happy to have moved you a "career's worth" of wisdom forward in a single comment. You aren't negotiating with HR. HR does not know what you do, and HR's best idea of what you're worth comes from those ridiculous salary survey sites.
    - mbillie1 13y ago
      This is a cogent point. HR may be your point of contact for your salary negotiation, but they are not the decision maker or barrier. Ask for more money and they will ask someone else for more money on your behalf. HR is almost never the enemy in less-than-huge companies (and even then only moderately at worst).
    - deleted 13y ago
      [deleted]
- username223 13y ago
  If your Human Resources people don't play a significant role in purchasing your human resources, something has gone wrong.
kriro 13y ago
I doubt that many startups have dedicated HR people. If they do it's probably a mistake. I've met quite a few HR folks with rather poor social skills. It's often the place where the worst business majors get "parked"

1stop 13y ago

I think that is just poor stereotyping. Most of the software developers I've worked with in my career have had very good social skills, those that didn't, were poor developers as well... So are they bad negotiators because of they lack negotiating ability, or actual ability? Is there data on the social skills of IT, HR, Gender breakdown etc... Perhaps what you are refering to is a U.S (?) phenomenon?

kamaal 13y ago
>> those that didn't, were poor developers as well... The fact that people with good social skills convinced you that they were good developers proves the comment made by the parent poster.
- 1stop 13y ago
  I didn't say that, at all. I suggest you re-read. To clarify for those that are a bit slow(er): Their development skills convinced me they were good developers, their social skills just correlated.
XorNot 13y ago
The correct answer is that developers do not have, and are resistant to, unionization. As individuals they'll always have very little bargaining power, and most developers are pretty easily replaceable (especially before they're hired).
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]

tptacek 13y ago

HR people do not as a rule do salary negotiation. You have to be a particularly "special" degree of bad at negotiating to end up out-negotiated by an HR person. I am sure there are companies that, by outward appearance, do have candidates negotiating with HR people after the interview is over. Step 1 in handling negotiation with those companies: realize that you are not negotiating with HR.

droopyEyelids 13y ago
This is a weird bit of advice. From my experience I have to assume you're saying "HR isn't the decision maker when hiring in elite tech companies" but the fact of the matter is HR/Recruiting is going to present the offer to most people, and it takes a career worth of preparation to move the conversation beyond that offer.
- tptacek 13y ago
  Well, I'm happy to have moved you a "career's worth" of wisdom forward in a single comment. You aren't negotiating with HR. HR does not know what you do, and HR's best idea of what you're worth comes from those ridiculous salary survey sites.
  - mbillie1 13y ago
    This is a cogent point. HR may be your point of contact for your salary negotiation, but they are not the decision maker or barrier. Ask for more money and they will ask someone else for more money on your behalf. HR is almost never the enemy in less-than-huge companies (and even then only moderately at worst).
  - deleted 13y ago
    [deleted]
username223 13y ago
If your Human Resources people don't play a significant role in purchasing your human resources, something has gone wrong.

kriro 13y ago

I doubt that many startups have dedicated HR people. If they do it's probably a mistake. I've met quite a few HR folks with rather poor social skills. It's often the place where the worst business majors get "parked"