5 ms·

> Think of the starving artists, musicians, olympic athletes, working class poor, the startup set, etc Maybe you are right and I am just cynical. But I have fe

> Think of the starving artists, musicians, olympic athletes, working class poor, the startup set, etc Maybe you are right and I am just cynical. But I have felt that some of these groups (with the exception of working class poor) are tolerated because of their success potential than for their status as individuals. And even with that a large number of people appear to disdainful of unsuccessful people in these fields. And about the only people who seem to like the working class poor are politicians who see them as a voting bloc of sorts.

thesimpsons1022 12y ago
the other person is wrong, the poor are definitely hated in america. they are villianized as lazy welfare queens. remember the 47 percent thing with Romney? turn on fox news for 10 minutes, John Stossel even villianizes the homeless. they also try to get rid of school lunches/food assistance for the poor.
- bronson 12y ago
  Fox News does not represent America.
  - hyperbovine 12y ago
    Not all of it, but not none of it either.
- ChuckMcM 12y ago
  Be careful with the dissonance between the television narrative and reality.
  - sophacles 12y ago
    Be careful with the dissonance between your social circle and "everyone". (In this case for instance - living in the midwest puts me into contact with a very large number of people who's beliefs align nearly perfectly with the television narrative).
    - wyclif 12y ago
      Meh, you lost me. Completely. One thing you have to remember is that in general, Americans are culturally one of the most generous nations in the world. Broadly speaking, that includes foreign aid and domestic welfare as well as voluntary charity. But at that same time, the US is an industrious nation that prizes hard work. It's a fine line to walk and people fall through the cracks in the system. Nevertheless, it's extremely uncharitable IMO to suggest that the poor are "hated" in America.
      - insuffi 12y ago
        You mean the same country where the word "social" is used as a slur? Or where if somebody receives welfare they are looked down upon and called lazy?[0] Broadly speaking, no, foreign aid given by the US is barely top 30 per capita. [0] http://www.prb.org/Publications/Articles/2002/AmericanAttitudesAboutPovertyandthePoor.aspx http://www.prb.org/Publications/Articles/2002/AmericanAttitu...
      - Retric 12y ago
        As a % of GDP it's not actually that high. US ranks #21 in Foreign aid and is 1/5 Sweden. http://www.statisticbrain.com/countries-that-give-the-most-in-foreign-aid-statistics/ http://www.statisticbrain.com/countries-that-give-the-most-i... Welfare # GDP US: 14.8 Sweden: 28.9 Giving we are #1 in monitary donations but it's only 1.85% of GDP in the US. http://www.forbes.com/2008/12/24/america-philanthropy-income-oped-cx_ee_1226eaves.html http://www.forbes.com/2008/12/24/america-philanthropy-income... "Based on volunteerism alone, the Netherlands comes first, followed by Sweden and then the U.S."
        wyclif 12y ago
        Still doesn't mean the poor are "hated", and it's still a vast amount of aid money.
  - thesimpsons1022 12y ago
    Fox News is the most watched cable news channel, so surely their views align with some portion of America. Even if its not the majority view, its still a powerful force.
  - GFK_of_xmaspast 12y ago
    I see a lot of people, including plenty in SV, who believe the "47%" narrative and plenty more who have nothing good to say about "the poors".
    - ChuckMcM 12y ago
      I don't disagree, the dissonance comes from conflating source to truth. It was once expressed in the adage, "It must be true, I read it in the newspaper!" which of course has no such authority. And more importantly how it is true is important as well. My philosopher friends go on and on about this. Critical thinking is really helpful here, and yes there are many folks who are not critical thinkers.
      - thesimpsons1022 12y ago
        what’s your point? everyone knows this. Who said I dismissed them because they were from those sources? use logic just for one second. The original person that the poor aren't looked down upon, and i responded by listing people/shows that look down on poor people. What the hell does that have to do with judging a point by its source? its a totally different subject. I agree with you, judge the logic, not the source. That's why I disagree that only women or minorities can have an opinion about issues concerning them.
- zo1 12y ago
  That's the media for you, and not necessarily "Fox" or whatever x-wing group you seem to dislike. Fox news is only seen as "bad" because it doesn't exaggerate reality to the side that the majority like. The other news media outlets do the exact same thing, just towards the other side of the narrative. Both sides of the media play on peoples' emotions. The real question is: are you intellectually honest enough to entertain views and thoughts for their own merit without dismissing them flatly just because "they're from Fox", "John Stossel", or "Romney".
  - thesimpsons1022 12y ago
    what’s your point? everyone knows this. Who said I dismissed them because they were from those sources? use logic just for one second. The original person that the poor aren't looked down upon, and i responded by listing people/shows that look down on poor people. What the hell does that have to do with judging a point by its source? its a totally different subject. I agree with you, judge the logic, not the source. That's why I disagree that only women or minorities can have an opinion about issues concerning them.
Varcht 12y ago
Since the days of our founding fathers we have valued hard work and initiative and I'm glad that many of us still do. Personally I respect the working class poor and I feel that most of my peers do also, it gets sticky when efforts are made to artificially raise their positions with handouts rather than hands up. I don't think that the others are tolerated for their potential, rather esteemed for their initiative and dedication.
mpyne 12y ago
> Maybe you are right and I am just cynical. IMHO it's just a bit of cynicism. Even those who "hate the poor" here don't hate the poor, they hate the lazy. They simply equate being lazy with being poor. But if you're poor and working (or even poor but not imposing on society) then even the right-wingers I'd know of would have tons of respect. If anything the desire for status seems to be reviled more and more in America too.

thesimpsons1022 12y ago

the other person is wrong, the poor are definitely hated in america. they are villianized as lazy welfare queens. remember the 47 percent thing with Romney? turn on fox news for 10 minutes, John Stossel even villianizes the homeless. they also try to get rid of school lunches/food assistance for the poor.

bronson 12y ago
Fox News does not represent America.
- hyperbovine 12y ago
  Not all of it, but not none of it either.
ChuckMcM 12y ago
Be careful with the dissonance between the television narrative and reality.
- sophacles 12y ago
  Be careful with the dissonance between your social circle and "everyone". (In this case for instance - living in the midwest puts me into contact with a very large number of people who's beliefs align nearly perfectly with the television narrative).
  - wyclif 12y ago
    Meh, you lost me. Completely. One thing you have to remember is that in general, Americans are culturally one of the most generous nations in the world. Broadly speaking, that includes foreign aid and domestic welfare as well as voluntary charity. But at that same time, the US is an industrious nation that prizes hard work. It's a fine line to walk and people fall through the cracks in the system. Nevertheless, it's extremely uncharitable IMO to suggest that the poor are "hated" in America.
    - insuffi 12y ago
      You mean the same country where the word "social" is used as a slur? Or where if somebody receives welfare they are looked down upon and called lazy?[0] Broadly speaking, no, foreign aid given by the US is barely top 30 per capita. [0] http://www.prb.org/Publications/Articles/2002/AmericanAttitudesAboutPovertyandthePoor.aspx http://www.prb.org/Publications/Articles/2002/AmericanAttitu...
    - Retric 12y ago
      As a % of GDP it's not actually that high. US ranks #21 in Foreign aid and is 1/5 Sweden. http://www.statisticbrain.com/countries-that-give-the-most-in-foreign-aid-statistics/ http://www.statisticbrain.com/countries-that-give-the-most-i... Welfare # GDP US: 14.8 Sweden: 28.9 Giving we are #1 in monitary donations but it's only 1.85% of GDP in the US. http://www.forbes.com/2008/12/24/america-philanthropy-income-oped-cx_ee_1226eaves.html http://www.forbes.com/2008/12/24/america-philanthropy-income... "Based on volunteerism alone, the Netherlands comes first, followed by Sweden and then the U.S."
      - wyclif 12y ago
        Still doesn't mean the poor are "hated", and it's still a vast amount of aid money.
- thesimpsons1022 12y ago
  Fox News is the most watched cable news channel, so surely their views align with some portion of America. Even if its not the majority view, its still a powerful force.
- GFK_of_xmaspast 12y ago
  I see a lot of people, including plenty in SV, who believe the "47%" narrative and plenty more who have nothing good to say about "the poors".
  - ChuckMcM 12y ago
    I don't disagree, the dissonance comes from conflating source to truth. It was once expressed in the adage, "It must be true, I read it in the newspaper!" which of course has no such authority. And more importantly how it is true is important as well. My philosopher friends go on and on about this. Critical thinking is really helpful here, and yes there are many folks who are not critical thinkers.
    - thesimpsons1022 12y ago
      what’s your point? everyone knows this. Who said I dismissed them because they were from those sources? use logic just for one second. The original person that the poor aren't looked down upon, and i responded by listing people/shows that look down on poor people. What the hell does that have to do with judging a point by its source? its a totally different subject. I agree with you, judge the logic, not the source. That's why I disagree that only women or minorities can have an opinion about issues concerning them.
zo1 12y ago
That's the media for you, and not necessarily "Fox" or whatever x-wing group you seem to dislike. Fox news is only seen as "bad" because it doesn't exaggerate reality to the side that the majority like. The other news media outlets do the exact same thing, just towards the other side of the narrative. Both sides of the media play on peoples' emotions. The real question is: are you intellectually honest enough to entertain views and thoughts for their own merit without dismissing them flatly just because "they're from Fox", "John Stossel", or "Romney".
- thesimpsons1022 12y ago
  what’s your point? everyone knows this. Who said I dismissed them because they were from those sources? use logic just for one second. The original person that the poor aren't looked down upon, and i responded by listing people/shows that look down on poor people. What the hell does that have to do with judging a point by its source? its a totally different subject. I agree with you, judge the logic, not the source. That's why I disagree that only women or minorities can have an opinion about issues concerning them.

Varcht 12y ago

Since the days of our founding fathers we have valued hard work and initiative and I'm glad that many of us still do. Personally I respect the working class poor and I feel that most of my peers do also, it gets sticky when efforts are made to artificially raise their positions with handouts rather than hands up. I don't think that the others are tolerated for their potential, rather esteemed for their initiative and dedication.

mpyne 12y ago

> Maybe you are right and I am just cynical. IMHO it's just a bit of cynicism. Even those who "hate the poor" here don't hate the poor, they hate the lazy. They simply equate being lazy with being poor. But if you're poor and working (or even poor but not imposing on society) then even the right-wingers I'd know of would have tons of respect. If anything the desire for status seems to be reviled more and more in America too.