4 ms·

If I understand things correctly, what they're basically saying is that the utilities can smooth out energy consumption across the entire grid. For instance, in

If I understand things correctly, what they're basically saying is that the utilities can smooth out energy consumption across the entire grid. For instance, instead of everyone having the AC on for the first 10 minutes of every hour, they can turn 1/6 of the ACs on for the first 10 minutes, then turn those off and turn on the next 1/6 for the next 10 minutes, and so on. If that's the case, then instead of a huge spike (say, 80%) at the top of the hour and a huge dip (say, 10%) for the rest of the hour, the energy usage will be more constant across the whole hour (25% for the whole hour). This should, in theory, reduce utilities costs in general, which ideally would be passed on to the consumers. And since everyone's Nest thermostat is already turning the AC up for 10 minutes, then the consumer isn't spending/losing any money on this -- they were already doing this, it's just at a different time that helps the utilities companies. I think that's what they're talking about. It sounds like a cool plan, and a smart way for Nest to make big bucks.

toomuchtodo 13y ago
Exactly. Most utilities already do this, but they have to come out to your house to put a controller on your AC compressor, and have separate infrastructure to communicate load shedding commands to this controller. Nest (like all startups) abstracts away this pain, while charging based on the value provided (which is enormous, considering the cost of running peaking natural gas generators when demand is at its highest). EDIT: http://www.nj.com/business/index.ssf/2010/07/peakers_plants_provide_electri.html http://www.nj.com/business/index.ssf/2010/07/peakers_plants_... "Peakers like the Jersey City plant are extremely expensive to maintain. However, they are considered essential to maintaining the reliability of electricity during heat waves. So, PJM has a way for power plants to be paid for keeping these plants in operation. It costs ratepayers about $13 million annually for PSEG to keep the plant operational. That cost could vary depending upon how many days of the year PJM decides the plant is available to operate. The more days it’s available, the higher the charge to ratepayers." My opinion: Intelligent load shedding through Nest-like operations, along with the dramatic increase in wind and distributed solar generation, is going to do away with peaker plants.
shawkinaw 13y ago
Interesting. But I'm surprised this is necessary, I would think that the AC units are already turning on randomly, so that across a whole utility the load would be fairly level just based on statistics. Perhaps there are bigger correlations than I would guess.
- binarymax 13y ago
  Well, as an example, if everyone has their thermostat to kick on AC an hour before getting home from work, you'd expect some clustering around 5pm or so.
pyoung 13y ago
You are close, but not quite on point. The issue you discussed isn't really an issue that utilities face under normal circumstances, the law of large numbers tends to take care of that. Utilities typically use these systems to control the load during abnormal usage periods such as during a period of particularly hot outdoor temperatures. By throttling their customers AC usage, they can reduce demand and avoid risking blackouts/grid failures or having to resort to using 'peaker plants' which tend to be older and more polluting (and due to latency requirements, must be kept up and running for the entire peak period, even if they are never needed).
Houshalter 13y ago
Sounds like there could be a conflict of interest though. The power company makes more money if people use more electricity in general.
- Jemaclus 13y ago
  Well, not necessarily. The idea being that you're planning to have it kick in at 5:00 for 10 minutes, but in order to smooth out the energy distribution levels, they push it to 5:10 instead, so you're still using your 10 minutes of AC, just at a slightly different time... That's my take on it, anyway.
- hablahaha 13y ago
  True, but sometimes there really is just not enough electricity to go around. Consider power outages due to natural disasters or even extreme load on the grid. In Texas, we have a handful of days each summer where the grid is maxed out in the mid-afternoons and ERCOT (Electric Reliability Council of Texas) will come on the radio begging people to conserve their usage. This kind of product could mitigate that. There are also a lot of nuanced things that go on with utilities that influence their decisions: the electricity markets, regulations, issues at plants, industrial users, etc. Us sweating it out at our individual households don't mean a lot to them in the grand scheme of things.

toomuchtodo 13y ago

Exactly. Most utilities already do this, but they have to come out to your house to put a controller on your AC compressor, and have separate infrastructure to communicate load shedding commands to this controller. Nest (like all startups) abstracts away this pain, while charging based on the value provided (which is enormous, considering the cost of running peaking natural gas generators when demand is at its highest). EDIT: http://www.nj.com/business/index.ssf/2010/07/peakers_plants_provide_electri.html http://www.nj.com/business/index.ssf/2010/07/peakers_plants_... "Peakers like the Jersey City plant are extremely expensive to maintain. However, they are considered essential to maintaining the reliability of electricity during heat waves. So, PJM has a way for power plants to be paid for keeping these plants in operation. It costs ratepayers about $13 million annually for PSEG to keep the plant operational. That cost could vary depending upon how many days of the year PJM decides the plant is available to operate. The more days it’s available, the higher the charge to ratepayers." My opinion: Intelligent load shedding through Nest-like operations, along with the dramatic increase in wind and distributed solar generation, is going to do away with peaker plants.

shawkinaw 13y ago

Interesting. But I'm surprised this is necessary, I would think that the AC units are already turning on randomly, so that across a whole utility the load would be fairly level just based on statistics. Perhaps there are bigger correlations than I would guess.

binarymax 13y ago
Well, as an example, if everyone has their thermostat to kick on AC an hour before getting home from work, you'd expect some clustering around 5pm or so.

pyoung 13y ago

You are close, but not quite on point. The issue you discussed isn't really an issue that utilities face under normal circumstances, the law of large numbers tends to take care of that. Utilities typically use these systems to control the load during abnormal usage periods such as during a period of particularly hot outdoor temperatures. By throttling their customers AC usage, they can reduce demand and avoid risking blackouts/grid failures or having to resort to using 'peaker plants' which tend to be older and more polluting (and due to latency requirements, must be kept up and running for the entire peak period, even if they are never needed).

Houshalter 13y ago

Sounds like there could be a conflict of interest though. The power company makes more money if people use more electricity in general.

Jemaclus 13y ago
Well, not necessarily. The idea being that you're planning to have it kick in at 5:00 for 10 minutes, but in order to smooth out the energy distribution levels, they push it to 5:10 instead, so you're still using your 10 minutes of AC, just at a slightly different time... That's my take on it, anyway.
hablahaha 13y ago
True, but sometimes there really is just not enough electricity to go around. Consider power outages due to natural disasters or even extreme load on the grid. In Texas, we have a handful of days each summer where the grid is maxed out in the mid-afternoons and ERCOT (Electric Reliability Council of Texas) will come on the radio begging people to conserve their usage. This kind of product could mitigate that. There are also a lot of nuanced things that go on with utilities that influence their decisions: the electricity markets, regulations, issues at plants, industrial users, etc. Us sweating it out at our individual households don't mean a lot to them in the grand scheme of things.