6 ms·

I would disagree that "poor are decidedly disliked" here as a rule. There are plenty of "poor" that are accepted, liked and even esteemed. Think of the starving

by Varcht 13y ago

I would disagree that "poor are decidedly disliked" here as a rule. There are plenty of "poor" that are accepted, liked and even esteemed. Think of the starving artists, musicians, olympic athletes, working class poor, the startup set, etc. There is dislike for the poor that resort to crime, thuggery, drugs etc. At least this is how I see it from my middle class perspective.

deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
shadowfox 13y ago
> Think of the starving artists, musicians, olympic athletes, working class poor, the startup set, etc Maybe you are right and I am just cynical. But I have felt that some of these groups (with the exception of working class poor) are tolerated because of their success potential than for their status as individuals. And even with that a large number of people appear to disdainful of unsuccessful people in these fields. And about the only people who seem to like the working class poor are politicians who see them as a voting bloc of sorts.
- thesimpsons1022 13y ago
  the other person is wrong, the poor are definitely hated in america. they are villianized as lazy welfare queens. remember the 47 percent thing with Romney? turn on fox news for 10 minutes, John Stossel even villianizes the homeless. they also try to get rid of school lunches/food assistance for the poor.
  - bronson 13y ago
    Fox News does not represent America.
    - hyperbovine 13y ago
      Not all of it, but not none of it either.
  - ChuckMcM 13y ago
    Be careful with the dissonance between the television narrative and reality.
    - sophacles 13y ago
      Be careful with the dissonance between your social circle and "everyone". (In this case for instance - living in the midwest puts me into contact with a very large number of people who's beliefs align nearly perfectly with the television narrative).
      - wyclif 13y ago
        Meh, you lost me. Completely. One thing you have to remember is that in general, Americans are culturally one of the most generous nations in the world. Broadly speaking, that includes foreign aid and domestic welfare as well as voluntary charity. But at that same time, the US is an industrious nation that prizes hard work. It's a fine line to walk and people fall through the cracks in the system. Nevertheless, it's extremely uncharitable IMO to suggest that the poor are "hated" in America.
        insuffi 13y ago
        You mean the same country where the word "social" is used as a slur? Or where if somebody receives welfare they are looked down upon and called lazy?[0] Broadly speaking, no, foreign aid given by the US is barely top 30 per capita. [0] http://www.prb.org/Publications/Articles/2002/AmericanAttitudesAboutPovertyandthePoor.aspx http://www.prb.org/Publications/Articles/2002/AmericanAttitu...
        Retric 13y ago
        As a % of GDP it's not actually that high. US ranks #21 in Foreign aid and is 1/5 Sweden. http://www.statisticbrain.com/countries-that-give-the-most-in-foreign-aid-statistics/ http://www.statisticbrain.com/countries-that-give-the-most-i... Welfare # GDP US: 14.8 Sweden: 28.9 Giving we are #1 in monitary donations but it's only 1.85% of GDP in the US. http://www.forbes.com/2008/12/24/america-philanthropy-income-oped-cx_ee_1226eaves.html http://www.forbes.com/2008/12/24/america-philanthropy-income... "Based on volunteerism alone, the Netherlands comes first, followed by Sweden and then the U.S."
  - zo1 13y ago
    That's the media for you, and not necessarily "Fox" or whatever x-wing group you seem to dislike. Fox news is only seen as "bad" because it doesn't exaggerate reality to the side that the majority like. The other news media outlets do the exact same thing, just towards the other side of the narrative. Both sides of the media play on peoples' emotions. The real question is: are you intellectually honest enough to entertain views and thoughts for their own merit without dismissing them flatly just because "they're from Fox", "John Stossel", or "Romney".
    - thesimpsons1022 13y ago
      what’s your point? everyone knows this. Who said I dismissed them because they were from those sources? use logic just for one second. The original person that the poor aren't looked down upon, and i responded by listing people/shows that look down on poor people. What the hell does that have to do with judging a point by its source? its a totally different subject. I agree with you, judge the logic, not the source. That's why I disagree that only women or minorities can have an opinion about issues concerning them.
- Varcht 13y ago
  Since the days of our founding fathers we have valued hard work and initiative and I'm glad that many of us still do. Personally I respect the working class poor and I feel that most of my peers do also, it gets sticky when efforts are made to artificially raise their positions with handouts rather than hands up. I don't think that the others are tolerated for their potential, rather esteemed for their initiative and dedication.
- mpyne 13y ago
  > Maybe you are right and I am just cynical. IMHO it's just a bit of cynicism. Even those who "hate the poor" here don't hate the poor, they hate the lazy. They simply equate being lazy with being poor. But if you're poor and working (or even poor but not imposing on society) then even the right-wingers I'd know of would have tons of respect. If anything the desire for status seems to be reviled more and more in America too.
FragleRock 13y ago
Nonsense. Starving artists and athletes like who? The esteemed poor? like the people who get lambasted for buying red bull with food stamps? Americans idolize thugs who make money (biggie smalls, chris brown, dick cheney) I think your perspective may be out of focus.
throwawaymsft 13y ago
The starving artists, musicians, olympic athletes, and startup founders are temporarily not-yet-rich. Not having won isn't the problem, it's being satisfied and not playing the game which society shuns.
- niels_olson 13y ago
  For most of those folks, temporary is going to prove to be a very long time.
pktm 13y ago
I'm reminded of "Fiddler on a Roof": "It's no great shame to be poor, but it's no great honor, either."
lilsunnybee 13y ago
Outside of a few possible sports, running, soccer, etc. I doubt there are more than a handful of poor athletes that are able to compete. Most Olympic activities require intensive training and use of facilities that doesn't come cheap. Hours spent training are hours not spent earning enough for food and housing, and I don't think caloric and nutritional intake from a soup kitchen would be enough to sustain an athlete. The startup set are almost all wealthy, if not in assets then definitely in schooling, parenting, confidence. Where did all the most successful entrepreneurs grow up, go to school, what professions are their parents in. It's a pretty homogenous group really. The poor are treated like shit in the US (and in most of the world), and their concerns and opinions mean nothing to those in power.
vacri 13y ago
The fact that you characterise the artists as starving pretty much suggests that people dislike their work. That it isn't valued.
eli_gottlieb 13y ago
If America liked the poor it would give them money.

by Varcht 13y ago

deleted 13y ago

[deleted]

shadowfox 13y ago

> Think of the starving artists, musicians, olympic athletes, working class poor, the startup set, etc Maybe you are right and I am just cynical. But I have felt that some of these groups (with the exception of working class poor) are tolerated because of their success potential than for their status as individuals. And even with that a large number of people appear to disdainful of unsuccessful people in these fields. And about the only people who seem to like the working class poor are politicians who see them as a voting bloc of sorts.

thesimpsons1022 13y ago
the other person is wrong, the poor are definitely hated in america. they are villianized as lazy welfare queens. remember the 47 percent thing with Romney? turn on fox news for 10 minutes, John Stossel even villianizes the homeless. they also try to get rid of school lunches/food assistance for the poor.
- bronson 13y ago
  Fox News does not represent America.
  - hyperbovine 13y ago
    Not all of it, but not none of it either.
- ChuckMcM 13y ago
  Be careful with the dissonance between the television narrative and reality.
  - sophacles 13y ago
    Be careful with the dissonance between your social circle and "everyone". (In this case for instance - living in the midwest puts me into contact with a very large number of people who's beliefs align nearly perfectly with the television narrative).
    - wyclif 13y ago
      Meh, you lost me. Completely. One thing you have to remember is that in general, Americans are culturally one of the most generous nations in the world. Broadly speaking, that includes foreign aid and domestic welfare as well as voluntary charity. But at that same time, the US is an industrious nation that prizes hard work. It's a fine line to walk and people fall through the cracks in the system. Nevertheless, it's extremely uncharitable IMO to suggest that the poor are "hated" in America.
      - insuffi 13y ago
        You mean the same country where the word "social" is used as a slur? Or where if somebody receives welfare they are looked down upon and called lazy?[0] Broadly speaking, no, foreign aid given by the US is barely top 30 per capita. [0] http://www.prb.org/Publications/Articles/2002/AmericanAttitudesAboutPovertyandthePoor.aspx http://www.prb.org/Publications/Articles/2002/AmericanAttitu...
      - Retric 13y ago
        As a % of GDP it's not actually that high. US ranks #21 in Foreign aid and is 1/5 Sweden. http://www.statisticbrain.com/countries-that-give-the-most-in-foreign-aid-statistics/ http://www.statisticbrain.com/countries-that-give-the-most-i... Welfare # GDP US: 14.8 Sweden: 28.9 Giving we are #1 in monitary donations but it's only 1.85% of GDP in the US. http://www.forbes.com/2008/12/24/america-philanthropy-income-oped-cx_ee_1226eaves.html http://www.forbes.com/2008/12/24/america-philanthropy-income... "Based on volunteerism alone, the Netherlands comes first, followed by Sweden and then the U.S."
- zo1 13y ago
  That's the media for you, and not necessarily "Fox" or whatever x-wing group you seem to dislike. Fox news is only seen as "bad" because it doesn't exaggerate reality to the side that the majority like. The other news media outlets do the exact same thing, just towards the other side of the narrative. Both sides of the media play on peoples' emotions. The real question is: are you intellectually honest enough to entertain views and thoughts for their own merit without dismissing them flatly just because "they're from Fox", "John Stossel", or "Romney".
  - thesimpsons1022 13y ago
    what’s your point? everyone knows this. Who said I dismissed them because they were from those sources? use logic just for one second. The original person that the poor aren't looked down upon, and i responded by listing people/shows that look down on poor people. What the hell does that have to do with judging a point by its source? its a totally different subject. I agree with you, judge the logic, not the source. That's why I disagree that only women or minorities can have an opinion about issues concerning them.
Varcht 13y ago
Since the days of our founding fathers we have valued hard work and initiative and I'm glad that many of us still do. Personally I respect the working class poor and I feel that most of my peers do also, it gets sticky when efforts are made to artificially raise their positions with handouts rather than hands up. I don't think that the others are tolerated for their potential, rather esteemed for their initiative and dedication.
mpyne 13y ago
> Maybe you are right and I am just cynical. IMHO it's just a bit of cynicism. Even those who "hate the poor" here don't hate the poor, they hate the lazy. They simply equate being lazy with being poor. But if you're poor and working (or even poor but not imposing on society) then even the right-wingers I'd know of would have tons of respect. If anything the desire for status seems to be reviled more and more in America too.

FragleRock 13y ago

Nonsense. Starving artists and athletes like who? The esteemed poor? like the people who get lambasted for buying red bull with food stamps? Americans idolize thugs who make money (biggie smalls, chris brown, dick cheney) I think your perspective may be out of focus.

throwawaymsft 13y ago

The starving artists, musicians, olympic athletes, and startup founders are temporarily not-yet-rich. Not having won isn't the problem, it's being satisfied and not playing the game which society shuns.

niels_olson 13y ago
For most of those folks, temporary is going to prove to be a very long time.

pktm 13y ago

I'm reminded of "Fiddler on a Roof": "It's no great shame to be poor, but it's no great honor, either."

lilsunnybee 13y ago

Outside of a few possible sports, running, soccer, etc. I doubt there are more than a handful of poor athletes that are able to compete. Most Olympic activities require intensive training and use of facilities that doesn't come cheap. Hours spent training are hours not spent earning enough for food and housing, and I don't think caloric and nutritional intake from a soup kitchen would be enough to sustain an athlete. The startup set are almost all wealthy, if not in assets then definitely in schooling, parenting, confidence. Where did all the most successful entrepreneurs grow up, go to school, what professions are their parents in. It's a pretty homogenous group really. The poor are treated like shit in the US (and in most of the world), and their concerns and opinions mean nothing to those in power.

vacri 13y ago

The fact that you characterise the artists as starving pretty much suggests that people dislike their work. That it isn't valued.

eli_gottlieb 13y ago

If America liked the poor it would give them money.