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There was quite a lot of debate about it at the time as far as I recall but the core devs seemed set on it and have since stated that they aren't planing any mo

There was quite a lot of debate about it at the time as far as I recall but the core devs seemed set on it and have since stated that they aren't planing any more syntax changes[1] so I think it's pretty unlikely they will change it now. I think it's an unfortunate choice as well, although mainly because it's not a very visible character. >they really debate what's best, and check alternative implementations and discard stuff if they feel the need, even listening to community criticism (unlike some other recenty popular language designers who get in a "you're doing it wrong" defensive mode) When this kind of debate came up again last year on the mailing list it ended up with the mods threatening to ban people and the list being put on full moderation[2]. Along with rather unfriendly messages from the mods such as: "Normally I would warn about the code of conduct, but tbh, in this case I think [person criticising the syntax] deserved it" and "when you want to shut people down in the future (a rolethat is very much needed given the number of cranks that Rust attracts"[3] It may have come up again since but I unsubscribed from rust-dev at that point. [1] https://mail.mozilla.org/pipermail/rust-dev/2013-November/006467.html https://mail.mozilla.org/pipermail/rust-dev/2013-November/00... [2] https://mail.mozilla.org/pipermail/rust-dev/2013-November/006523.html https://mail.mozilla.org/pipermail/rust-dev/2013-November/00... [3] https://mail.mozilla.org/pipermail/rust-dev/2013-November/006522.html https://mail.mozilla.org/pipermail/rust-dev/2013-November/00...

coldtea 13y ago
Wow, I've check the rust-dev from time to time, and "this week in Rust". I've mostly seen the polite threads it seems, were stuff is discussed and debated. Going to check those links now...
- coldtea 13y ago
  Having read the thing now, I have to agree with mercurial. The thread started with inane suggestions from someone asking them to copy Clojure's (and Typed Clojure's) syntax. If anything, it went on for too long.
mercurial 13y ago
Well, to be fair, the character who initiated the whole thread comes off as rather obnoxious, occasionally rude and offers clearly unreasonable suggestions such as "remove the templates". All in all, most of the replies I see in this thread from the Rust team show a remarkable patience and take time to justify their current choices.
- anon1385 13y ago
  >Well, to be fair, the character who initiated the whole thread comes off as rather obnoxious, occasionally rude and offers clearly unreasonable suggestions such as "remove the templates". Sure, I mostly agree with that. I mainly posted the thread to show the initial comment about syntax changes being off the table from now on. I do think allowing posters to violate the mailing list guidelines for civility just because they are defending the Mozilla position against somebody who is being stubborn creates a bad atmosphere. As does calling people 'cranks' because they don't come from the ML world (to me 'crank' implies nutty conspiracy theorist, perhaps it has different meanings elsewhere).
  - AnimalMuppet 13y ago
    Well, "turn it into Lisp" may make one a crank on a Rust mailing list. It's not a conspiracy theory, but within the context, it is nutty... (And "use S-expressions" is pretty close to "turn it into Lisp", at least in terms of syntax.)
pcwalton 13y ago
That was a thread that was literally asking to change the language to use S-expressions. There has to a limit to what is on the table to change. Regarding the broader point, I think mailing lists just aren't a good place for that sort of discussion. It's really unfortunate that it ended that way. Nowadays, changes go through an RFC process, with pull requests in a GitHub repo [1] and discussions there. We made a lot of effort to be as transparent and participatory as possible in designing the system. [1]: https://github.com/rust-lang/rfcs/ https://github.com/rust-lang/rfcs/

coldtea 13y ago

Wow, I've check the rust-dev from time to time, and "this week in Rust". I've mostly seen the polite threads it seems, were stuff is discussed and debated. Going to check those links now...

coldtea 13y ago
Having read the thing now, I have to agree with mercurial. The thread started with inane suggestions from someone asking them to copy Clojure's (and Typed Clojure's) syntax. If anything, it went on for too long.

mercurial 13y ago

Well, to be fair, the character who initiated the whole thread comes off as rather obnoxious, occasionally rude and offers clearly unreasonable suggestions such as "remove the templates". All in all, most of the replies I see in this thread from the Rust team show a remarkable patience and take time to justify their current choices.

anon1385 13y ago
>Well, to be fair, the character who initiated the whole thread comes off as rather obnoxious, occasionally rude and offers clearly unreasonable suggestions such as "remove the templates". Sure, I mostly agree with that. I mainly posted the thread to show the initial comment about syntax changes being off the table from now on. I do think allowing posters to violate the mailing list guidelines for civility just because they are defending the Mozilla position against somebody who is being stubborn creates a bad atmosphere. As does calling people 'cranks' because they don't come from the ML world (to me 'crank' implies nutty conspiracy theorist, perhaps it has different meanings elsewhere).
- AnimalMuppet 13y ago
  Well, "turn it into Lisp" may make one a crank on a Rust mailing list. It's not a conspiracy theory, but within the context, it is nutty... (And "use S-expressions" is pretty close to "turn it into Lisp", at least in terms of syntax.)

pcwalton 13y ago

That was a thread that was literally asking to change the language to use S-expressions. There has to a limit to what is on the table to change. Regarding the broader point, I think mailing lists just aren't a good place for that sort of discussion. It's really unfortunate that it ended that way. Nowadays, changes go through an RFC process, with pull requests in a GitHub repo [1] and discussions there. We made a lot of effort to be as transparent and participatory as possible in designing the system. [1]: https://github.com/rust-lang/rfcs/ https://github.com/rust-lang/rfcs/