5 ms·

So you are saying chimps or dogs can make their own space shuttle let's say in next 50,000 years? or for that matter any other species of animal.

by frade33 12y ago

lutusp 12y ago
Yes, of course -- there's nothing special about humans that sets us apart from other animals except a few accidents of evolution. In the right circumstances, any other animal could take our place. But not in 50,000 years, more time would likely be required.
CocaKoala 12y ago
I'm confused; first you said that reaching the moon was a hallmark for intelligence, and now you're saying that reaching the moon within the next 50,000 years is a hallmark for intelligence? If we find life in another solar system, are you going to deem them not intelligent because they haven't reached our moon? The point that I'm trying to make here is that you're setting a very arbitrary flag in the sand when you say "Everything to the right is intelligent, everything to the left is not". You need to define your terms much much more clearly and unambiguously; you need to point to specific attributes that humans display which no other animals display and say "This is the mark by which I judge us intelligent". Saying "Well we got to the moon" doesn't do it, because obviously we were intelligent long before we got to the moon. And if we were intelligent long before we got to the moon, by what right do you have to say a chimp or a dog isn't intelligent until they do? Maybe chimps just don't care; maybe dogs are afraid of heights.
- JoeAltmaier 12y ago
  Silly; chimps and dogs haven't a fraction of the concentration, mental modeling nor communications skills needed. That part is unambiguous. Those things are often measured as part of measuring intelligence in humans. Ergo, chimps and dogs are not as intelligent as humans, by far.
  - CocaKoala 12y ago
    Sure; I'm not arguing that they are. If you say that chimps and dogs fail to display specific attributes that humans do (e.g. concentration at a certain level, mental modeling, sufficiently advanced communication skills), I won't argue with you because my knowledge of BCS isn't high enough for me to participate at a meaningful level. But the OP didn't do that; he said that dogs and chimps aren't intelligent because they haven't gone to the moon and until he starts defining his terms in the same clearcut way that you have, it's impossible to really discuss the point he's trying to make. edit: Also, the original point the OP made wasn't "Dogs and chimps are not as intelligent as humans", the point was "Humans are the only intelligent species on the planet". And while you can make an argument to say that dogs and chimps are not as intelligent as humans, I would contest your saying that dogs and chimps do not display intelligence, full stop. And I would further contest (as I've been doing) the statement that the boundary for intelligence vs. however you'd describe a vacuum of intelligence is the arbitrary point of landing on the moon, or even being within 50,000 years of doing so.
    - JoeAltmaier 12y ago
      Yeah OP was silly, agreed. There are humans that opt out of technology, and not because they're dumb.
      - frade33 12y ago
        Technology is result of our wisdom, if one does not uses technology, that does not mean, that human is not intelligent,. The topic was intelligence and our physical body that apparently is perfect to support the intelligence we have.
        JoeAltmaier 12y ago
        Same could be said of any animal? And just because animals don't express our sort of technology doesn't mean they can't.
        12y ago

So you are saying chimps or dogs can make their own space shuttle let's say in next 50,000 years? or for that matter any other species of animal.

by frade33 12y ago

So you are saying chimps or dogs can make their own space shuttle let's say in next 50,000 years? or for that matter any other species of animal.

lutusp 12y ago

Yes, of course -- there's nothing special about humans that sets us apart from other animals except a few accidents of evolution. In the right circumstances, any other animal could take our place. But not in 50,000 years, more time would likely be required.

CocaKoala 12y ago

I'm confused; first you said that reaching the moon was a hallmark for intelligence, and now you're saying that reaching the moon within the next 50,000 years is a hallmark for intelligence? If we find life in another solar system, are you going to deem them not intelligent because they haven't reached our moon? The point that I'm trying to make here is that you're setting a very arbitrary flag in the sand when you say "Everything to the right is intelligent, everything to the left is not". You need to define your terms much much more clearly and unambiguously; you need to point to specific attributes that humans display which no other animals display and say "This is the mark by which I judge us intelligent". Saying "Well we got to the moon" doesn't do it, because obviously we were intelligent long before we got to the moon. And if we were intelligent long before we got to the moon, by what right do you have to say a chimp or a dog isn't intelligent until they do? Maybe chimps just don't care; maybe dogs are afraid of heights.

JoeAltmaier 12y ago
Silly; chimps and dogs haven't a fraction of the concentration, mental modeling nor communications skills needed. That part is unambiguous. Those things are often measured as part of measuring intelligence in humans. Ergo, chimps and dogs are not as intelligent as humans, by far.
- CocaKoala 12y ago
  Sure; I'm not arguing that they are. If you say that chimps and dogs fail to display specific attributes that humans do (e.g. concentration at a certain level, mental modeling, sufficiently advanced communication skills), I won't argue with you because my knowledge of BCS isn't high enough for me to participate at a meaningful level. But the OP didn't do that; he said that dogs and chimps aren't intelligent because they haven't gone to the moon and until he starts defining his terms in the same clearcut way that you have, it's impossible to really discuss the point he's trying to make. edit: Also, the original point the OP made wasn't "Dogs and chimps are not as intelligent as humans", the point was "Humans are the only intelligent species on the planet". And while you can make an argument to say that dogs and chimps are not as intelligent as humans, I would contest your saying that dogs and chimps do not display intelligence, full stop. And I would further contest (as I've been doing) the statement that the boundary for intelligence vs. however you'd describe a vacuum of intelligence is the arbitrary point of landing on the moon, or even being within 50,000 years of doing so.
  - JoeAltmaier 12y ago
    Yeah OP was silly, agreed. There are humans that opt out of technology, and not because they're dumb.
    - frade33 12y ago
      Technology is result of our wisdom, if one does not uses technology, that does not mean, that human is not intelligent,. The topic was intelligence and our physical body that apparently is perfect to support the intelligence we have.
      - JoeAltmaier 12y ago
        Same could be said of any animal? And just because animals don't express our sort of technology doesn't mean they can't.
        12y ago