4 ms·

In learning Clojure first then Racket, it struck me how many good ideas came from racket.. and now how many are still being mined - typed racket being the obvio

In learning Clojure first then Racket, it struck me how many good ideas came from racket.. and now how many are still being mined - typed racket being the obvious one.

lispm 13y ago
I don't know how much Rich Hickey used Racket, but he used Common Lisp for several years and wrote some complex libaries for it. There is also a sketch of Clojure early on written in Common Lisp.
- hga 13y ago
  Racket started out as a Scheme, and Clojure has mined quite a bit from Scheme. Both are Lisp-1s, loop/recur, not accepting a lot of mainline LISP (e.g. Common Lisp nowadays) baggage, etc.
  - lispm 13y ago
    Actually there is not much Clojure got from Scheme. Lisp 1 is not tied to Scheme. loop/recur is much less powerful than Scheme's TCO.
    - hga 13y ago
      Lisp-1 is pretty firmly tied in most people's minds to Scheme: at the very least the paper that coined the terms (http://www.nhplace.com/kent/Papers/Technical-Issues.html http://www.nhplace.com/kent/Papers/Technical-Issues.html) ascribed it to Scheme, and as far as I know it first came from Scheme (although it's so easy to create a low performance Lisp I wouldn't be surprised if that had been tried before). loop/recur is of course much less powerful than TCO, because the JVM doesn't natively support it (it's not trivial, security wise). There are three other Lisps on the JVM that I know of: SISC Scheme is mostly dead but does TCO at a cost in speed, Kawa Scheme has as of late added fine grain control over TCO, and Armed Bear Common Lisp doesn't try, as Common Lisps are not required to. But loop/recur sure looks to be ultimately inspired by Scheme style use of TCO; I just did a set of functions using it for the first time and everything I learned from SICP/6.001 applied and made that part of it trivial.
      - lispm 13y ago
        Haskell also has only one namespace. I propose that Clojure took it from there, including persistent data structures, lazy data structures, ... > But loop/recur sure looks to be ultimately inspired by Scheme style use of TCO; To me it looks more like ancient Lisp with prog and goto. (defun foo () (prog ((a 1)) start (print a) (when (< a 10) (incf a) (go start)))) Old Lisp code is full of that. It's basically what LOOP/RECUR provides.
brudgers 13y ago
That's the advantage of Racket's close relationship with academia...'Implementing x in Racket' is publishable and 'A y Library for Racket' is a Master's Degree project.

In learning Clojure first then Racket, it struck me how many good ideas came from racket.. and now how many are still being mined - typed racket being the obvious one.

lispm 13y ago

I don't know how much Rich Hickey used Racket, but he used Common Lisp for several years and wrote some complex libaries for it. There is also a sketch of Clojure early on written in Common Lisp.

hga 13y ago
Racket started out as a Scheme, and Clojure has mined quite a bit from Scheme. Both are Lisp-1s, loop/recur, not accepting a lot of mainline LISP (e.g. Common Lisp nowadays) baggage, etc.
- lispm 13y ago
  Actually there is not much Clojure got from Scheme. Lisp 1 is not tied to Scheme. loop/recur is much less powerful than Scheme's TCO.
  - hga 13y ago
    Lisp-1 is pretty firmly tied in most people's minds to Scheme: at the very least the paper that coined the terms (http://www.nhplace.com/kent/Papers/Technical-Issues.html http://www.nhplace.com/kent/Papers/Technical-Issues.html) ascribed it to Scheme, and as far as I know it first came from Scheme (although it's so easy to create a low performance Lisp I wouldn't be surprised if that had been tried before). loop/recur is of course much less powerful than TCO, because the JVM doesn't natively support it (it's not trivial, security wise). There are three other Lisps on the JVM that I know of: SISC Scheme is mostly dead but does TCO at a cost in speed, Kawa Scheme has as of late added fine grain control over TCO, and Armed Bear Common Lisp doesn't try, as Common Lisps are not required to. But loop/recur sure looks to be ultimately inspired by Scheme style use of TCO; I just did a set of functions using it for the first time and everything I learned from SICP/6.001 applied and made that part of it trivial.
    - lispm 13y ago
      Haskell also has only one namespace. I propose that Clojure took it from there, including persistent data structures, lazy data structures, ... > But loop/recur sure looks to be ultimately inspired by Scheme style use of TCO; To me it looks more like ancient Lisp with prog and goto. (defun foo () (prog ((a 1)) start (print a) (when (< a 10) (incf a) (go start)))) Old Lisp code is full of that. It's basically what LOOP/RECUR provides.

brudgers 13y ago

That's the advantage of Racket's close relationship with academia...'Implementing x in Racket' is publishable and 'A y Library for Racket' is a Master's Degree project.