5 ms·

I wonder whether being able to downvote makes you a more thoughtful commentor. Perhaps run an analysis on quality of comments (maybe as simple as avg. karma per

by ajiang 13y ago

I wonder whether being able to downvote makes you a more thoughtful commentor. Perhaps run an analysis on quality of comments (maybe as simple as avg. karma per comment) 400 to 500 vs. 500 to 600?

cbhl 13y ago
One of the things I noticed was that when I was just over the threshold I was more choosy about downvoting because each downvote reduced your karma by one (so over-zealous downvoting would result in you losing the ability to downvote).
- jamesbritt 13y ago
  I don't think I've ever seen this. I don't downvote all that much but my karma seems to stay the same if I do.
tlb 13y ago
Being on both sides of the table is always instructive. I'm sure voting has made me more thoughtful. Hours spent considering comments that combine a useful insight with snarkiness and deciding whether to up- or down-vote them has made me lastingly less snarky on the internet.
Mz 13y ago
Perhaps not a good thing to admit: I have a couple of handles* on HN. One of them is this one, which has enough karma to downvote, and the other has too little karma to downvote. After being really thoroughly raked over the coals for a time, I began mostly logging in under my other handle in part because some people had been really horrible to me and I found myself going "YOU ARE AN ASSHOLE -- DOWNVOTE!" I didn't like interacting with the site that way and was also worried it would have negative consequences for me personally, especially since pg was not handling things in a transparent manner and there was no clear, easy way to get with a mod and sort anything out. I returned to active use of this handle at a point where I was less bitter and also the culture seemed less toxic and I no longer felt like I was just being consistently shit on, all the time. So that isn't an issue for me anymore. And my main point is that moderating is a human thing. Karma and other technical tools are just that -- tools. There are no magic solutions. Algorithms and what not have their uses but we are all human and building community is more about how people treat each other and making judgment calls and all that then about any specific technical anything. * This is not a secret and there is no reason to believe they cannot be readily connected to each other -- it was not done to fool anyone here, it was done for other reasons.
samstave 13y ago
Downvoting is still abused IMO; people who simply disagree with you will downvote without explanation. If they wanted to make an adjustment to the downvote karma threshold, I would suggest "require comment with down-vote" would be an interesting thing to test.
- dfc 13y ago
  It would be a neat thing to test for DH1 and above comments. But do you really want to have to comment on "The author is a self-important dilettante" or "u r a fag!!!!!" However maybe I should be flagging these comments instead of downvoting them?
  - msandford 13y ago
    I've had comments downvoted that might have expressed an unpopular but not necessarily wrong opinion. Getting downvoted with no comments as to why is really frustrating. Especially if I'm making a good-faith effort to participate honestly rather than trolling or whatever. I get that not all downvotes NEED a comment categorically but there's some meat on the "downvotes deserve comments" bones.
    - krapp 13y ago
      I think that downvotes without context or downvotes without comments would me more tolerable if downvotes didn't also automatically white out text - maybe there should be a margin of two or three before that happens to allow for the inevitable drive-bys and people who just don't like what you say but don't care enough to refute it.
    - 6cxs2hd6 13y ago
      Yes, and it's especially frustrating when you are a newer user and trying to "learn the rules" and contribute constructively. Although I understand HN is cautious about welcoming new users in general, it probably ought to welcome more warmly new users who are trying to be constructive. Also: A couple times I have accidentally hit the down arrow. There is no undo. How does this relate to comment quality? The only remedy is to add a "Sorry, I downvoted you accidentally" comment, which I've seen people do. Although it's good etiquette that's a relatively low-quality comment.
ballard 13y ago
Possibly. But I think people shouldn't be able to up or down vote on threads they're in, it's a conflict of interest. (If they did vote, give it back to be fair.)

by ajiang 13y ago

I wonder whether being able to downvote makes you a more thoughtful commentor. Perhaps run an analysis on quality of comments (maybe as simple as avg. karma per comment) 400 to 500 vs. 500 to 600?

cbhl 13y ago

One of the things I noticed was that when I was just over the threshold I was more choosy about downvoting because each downvote reduced your karma by one (so over-zealous downvoting would result in you losing the ability to downvote).

jamesbritt 13y ago
I don't think I've ever seen this. I don't downvote all that much but my karma seems to stay the same if I do.

tlb 13y ago

Being on both sides of the table is always instructive. I'm sure voting has made me more thoughtful. Hours spent considering comments that combine a useful insight with snarkiness and deciding whether to up- or down-vote them has made me lastingly less snarky on the internet.

Mz 13y ago

Perhaps not a good thing to admit: I have a couple of handles* on HN. One of them is this one, which has enough karma to downvote, and the other has too little karma to downvote. After being really thoroughly raked over the coals for a time, I began mostly logging in under my other handle in part because some people had been really horrible to me and I found myself going "YOU ARE AN ASSHOLE -- DOWNVOTE!" I didn't like interacting with the site that way and was also worried it would have negative consequences for me personally, especially since pg was not handling things in a transparent manner and there was no clear, easy way to get with a mod and sort anything out. I returned to active use of this handle at a point where I was less bitter and also the culture seemed less toxic and I no longer felt like I was just being consistently shit on, all the time. So that isn't an issue for me anymore. And my main point is that moderating is a human thing. Karma and other technical tools are just that -- tools. There are no magic solutions. Algorithms and what not have their uses but we are all human and building community is more about how people treat each other and making judgment calls and all that then about any specific technical anything. * This is not a secret and there is no reason to believe they cannot be readily connected to each other -- it was not done to fool anyone here, it was done for other reasons.

samstave 13y ago

Downvoting is still abused IMO; people who simply disagree with you will downvote without explanation. If they wanted to make an adjustment to the downvote karma threshold, I would suggest "require comment with down-vote" would be an interesting thing to test.

dfc 13y ago
It would be a neat thing to test for DH1 and above comments. But do you really want to have to comment on "The author is a self-important dilettante" or "u r a fag!!!!!" However maybe I should be flagging these comments instead of downvoting them?
- msandford 13y ago
  I've had comments downvoted that might have expressed an unpopular but not necessarily wrong opinion. Getting downvoted with no comments as to why is really frustrating. Especially if I'm making a good-faith effort to participate honestly rather than trolling or whatever. I get that not all downvotes NEED a comment categorically but there's some meat on the "downvotes deserve comments" bones.
  - krapp 13y ago
    I think that downvotes without context or downvotes without comments would me more tolerable if downvotes didn't also automatically white out text - maybe there should be a margin of two or three before that happens to allow for the inevitable drive-bys and people who just don't like what you say but don't care enough to refute it.
  - 6cxs2hd6 13y ago
    Yes, and it's especially frustrating when you are a newer user and trying to "learn the rules" and contribute constructively. Although I understand HN is cautious about welcoming new users in general, it probably ought to welcome more warmly new users who are trying to be constructive. Also: A couple times I have accidentally hit the down arrow. There is no undo. How does this relate to comment quality? The only remedy is to add a "Sorry, I downvoted you accidentally" comment, which I've seen people do. Although it's good etiquette that's a relatively low-quality comment.

ballard 13y ago

Possibly. But I think people shouldn't be able to up or down vote on threads they're in, it's a conflict of interest. (If they did vote, give it back to be fair.)