8 ms·

Uber hit with preliminary injunction to stop service in Berlin

45 points by Xylakant 13y ago

Xylakant 13y ago
Sorry, I couldn't find an english source. Google translate link http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=de&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.zeit.de%2Fmobilitaet%2F2014-04%2Fpersonenbefoerderung-berlin-uber&edit-text= http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=de&tl=en&js=y&prev=... It's interesting to note that "Uber" is translated as "About" (über) --- Thanks for everyone explaining why Uber translates to about - I'm a german native. Not knowing that makes the google translate a little hard to read, so I thought I'd add it for all that don't speak german.
- sdfjkl 13y ago
  "Uber" is really quite a poor brand name for the German market. It either implies ignorance of the u-umlaut (the correct transliteration of über would be ueber, not uber), or worse, some very negative associations with Nazi ideologies (Übermensch and the first line of the Deutschlandlied).
  - thmcmahon 13y ago
    What? Umber is just a preposition, it doesn't has nazi overtones. The fact that it's grammatically incorrect is probably a plus, because it's then less likely to be confused.
    - DasIch 13y ago
      "über" does not always have nazi overtones but as with many other similiar words in the german language it is definitely tainted with nazi overtones, which are very obviously present depending on the context in which a word is used. If you use "über" to describe something as better in some way, nazi overtones are very obviously present and if you name a company Uber, it's definitely implied that you're better than the alternatives.
      - voidlogic 13y ago
        >if you name a company Uber, it's definitely implied that you're better than the alternatives. Wasn't this the point of the name? Where I live people use über often and it means pretty much what it means in German and has no Nazi connotations. (Of course most of our German ancestors moved here long before WWI)
        DasIch 13y ago
        Of course it's the point but in precisely in this context it has a nazi overtones because this is how the nazis used it see "Übermensch" or "Deutschland über alles".
    - a8000 13y ago
      "Deutschland, Deutschland über alles, über alles in der Welt..." is the beginning of the first verse of the national anthem that has now been banned, although mostly because it refers to borders that Germany now does not have anymore.
- Ygg2 13y ago
  It translates to above? Like "X über alles" is "X above else". http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/%C3%BCber%20alles http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/%C3%BCber%20alles
- kitsune_ 13y ago
  Über can be used as a prefix, but also as a preposition. Wikipedia has a good article about Über [1] "über etwas sprechen" -> "to speak about something" "über die Brücke" -> "across the bridge" [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%9Cber http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%9Cber
  - pilif 13y ago
    or, in Uber's case, "above" probably works best: "weit über das Nötige hinaus" -> "far above what's necessary"
- DasIch 13y ago
  "Über" has no direct translation to English, it can only be translated in context. It can be translated to about, above, over, across, of, via, beyond and several other words.
NicoJuicy 13y ago
Well, the minister of mobility in Belgium also stopped Uber... Neelie Kroes says she is disappointed because of stopping innovation...
calibwam 13y ago
It is always better to attack competition than to become better yourself. - AT&T, Comcast, etc.
- omnibrain 13y ago
  From all I read Taxi business in Berlin is already a highly competitive market with low margin and low salaries for the drivers. I think this market does not need a downward spiral. Granted, my sources (taxi driver blogs) may be biased.
  - wyager 13y ago
    > my sources (taxi driver blogs) So you trust the taxi drivers to tell you if their industry is "competitive enough"? Brb, I have to go ask comcast if the cable industry is competitive enough. There is no such thing as too much competition. Increased competition always has a net positive effect. Comcast and the taxi industry may suffer, but society will benefit.
merrua 13y ago
Pretty fair that they blocked it. Its basically an unregulated taxi service. Also the name is terrible for Germany.
- travisp 13y ago
  It's worth noting that in this context as far as I can tell, Uber's drivers and cars were regulated and licensed. They are allowed to drive limos for hire, but the law requires them to return to their place of business after a job (they aren't allowed to keep cars sitting around to pick up passengers). The google translation of the main complaint by the taxi association is "they keep taxe similar primarily in downtown ready to spontaneously pick up passengers." In other words, they don't wait to receive a call to get a car close and available to their passengers. So, while it's true that this is probably against the laws of the city, it's hard to see it as anything other than protectionism for taxis: there's no evidence that Uber was causing harm for passengers (or else they'd be talking about this), and there's no reason to believe that making a limo service return its cars to its place of business after each job is inherently better for consumers.
  - Xylakant 13y ago
    In this context it's important to note that it's not a city law. Übers drivers violate the Personenbeförderungsgesetz which is a federal law. The injunction might have happened in all german cities, but this specific case seems to be about Berlin only. Most specifically Uber violates §49 ("Verkehr mit Mietomnibussen und mit Mietwagen"), Satz (4) which makes a very clear and distinct case that rental limousines must avoid confusion with Taxis. " Annahme, Vermittlung und Ausführung von Beförderungsaufträgen, das Bereithalten des Mietwagens sowie Werbung für Mietwagenverkehr dürfen weder allein noch in ihrer Verbindung geeignet sein, zur Verwechslung mit dem Taxenverkehr zu führen." The regulations concerning limos for hire are far lower than the regulations concerning cabs, most notably limos for hire are exempt from §21 (Betriebspflicht) and §22 (Beförderungspflicht). Basically cabs have to accept any customer and the law demands that they keep on providing (and even expanding) their service as deemed necessary by the city. It's like saying "oh, regular cars are regulated as well". The cabs in germany are regulated as part of the public transport. Uber tries to skirt that regulation and reap the benefits, while undermining the system - and by doing that they create damage to the consumers. Even if you assume there's no damage to the consumer it's not Uber that gets to decide which law applies and which needs disruption. I could think of a couple of laws that I think need disruption in my line of work (tax law, for example) but I don't get to choose either. http://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/pbefg/__49.html http://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/pbefg/__49.html
Genmutant 13y ago
It's strange that this took so long, and only in Berlin. If you want to drive a Taxi in Germany, you need a special driver's license. If you want to open a taxi company you need to prove that you are reliable and secure. Additionally you can't refuse a passenger (if there is nothing wrong with them) and can only charge the tarif the city says (+ additional charges like if it sunday or at night).
- Xylakant 13y ago
  > It's strange that this took so long, and only in Berlin. I'm not surprised that it's only in Berlin: Berlin and Munich are the only german cities Uber operates in. In addition to that you need standing to sue, so neither you nor me as a customer can sue. The injunction here is the result of a case started by a taxi company owner in Berlin, so it applies to Berlin only. I would assume that the Munich cab companies were waiting for this case to go through and might follow suit. It's important to note that this is _only_ a preliminary decision, the final court decision may be different. It's more of an indicator in which direction the court leans, but preliminary injunctions may be granted for reasons such as that continuing the service might create irreversible facts. (nb: I haven't read the injunction)
- simfoo 13y ago
  Exactly. And as the article shows in the end, it seems Uber did raise their fares according to high demand in at least one occasion in New York.
  - Xylakant 13y ago
    That's a feature (Surge Pricing). The official reason is to get more cars on the road, but I bet they're not unhappy about pocketing more consumer money either.
    - thenewbtg 13y ago
      Surge Pricing is illegal in Berlin, and probably other European countries. And I imagine the illegality of price gouging ("surge pricing") while also skirting taxi regulation will be expanded dramatically in the coming years, all across much of Europe and blue states. Yes, you can profit when you find loopholes in regulations that your competitors can't take advantage of. Color me shocked.
peterjancelis 13y ago
In Brussels Uber (more specifically UberPOP) got banned as well.
zenbowman 13y ago
Good. Lawbreakers should be prosecuted. If the law is unjust, then change the law for all - don't allow some people to get away with it just because they are "tech companies" and continue to oppress the rest with the laws.
- marcblackbeard 13y ago
  Yeah, Uber is oppressing the german people by offering a better and cheaper service to them, they need to go away.
  - zenbowman 13y ago
    That's not the point. The point is that if a non-internet taxi company did the same thing, they'd be in legal trouble. Even the playing field by lifting restrictions, or apply them evenly.

45 points by Xylakant 13y ago

Sorry, I couldn't find an english source. Google translate link http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=de&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.zeit.de%2Fmobilitaet%2F2014-04%2Fpersonenbefoerderung-berlin-uber&edit-text= http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=de&tl=en&js=y&prev=... It's interesting to note that "Uber" is translated as "About" (über) --- Thanks for everyone explaining why Uber translates to about - I'm a german native. Not knowing that makes the google translate a little hard to read, so I thought I'd add it for all that don't speak german.

sdfjkl 13y ago
"Uber" is really quite a poor brand name for the German market. It either implies ignorance of the u-umlaut (the correct transliteration of über would be ueber, not uber), or worse, some very negative associations with Nazi ideologies (Übermensch and the first line of the Deutschlandlied).
- thmcmahon 13y ago
  What? Umber is just a preposition, it doesn't has nazi overtones. The fact that it's grammatically incorrect is probably a plus, because it's then less likely to be confused.
  - DasIch 13y ago
    "über" does not always have nazi overtones but as with many other similiar words in the german language it is definitely tainted with nazi overtones, which are very obviously present depending on the context in which a word is used. If you use "über" to describe something as better in some way, nazi overtones are very obviously present and if you name a company Uber, it's definitely implied that you're better than the alternatives.
    - voidlogic 13y ago
      >if you name a company Uber, it's definitely implied that you're better than the alternatives. Wasn't this the point of the name? Where I live people use über often and it means pretty much what it means in German and has no Nazi connotations. (Of course most of our German ancestors moved here long before WWI)
      - DasIch 13y ago
        Of course it's the point but in precisely in this context it has a nazi overtones because this is how the nazis used it see "Übermensch" or "Deutschland über alles".
  - a8000 13y ago
    "Deutschland, Deutschland über alles, über alles in der Welt..." is the beginning of the first verse of the national anthem that has now been banned, although mostly because it refers to borders that Germany now does not have anymore.
Ygg2 13y ago
It translates to above? Like "X über alles" is "X above else". http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/%C3%BCber%20alles http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/%C3%BCber%20alles
kitsune_ 13y ago
Über can be used as a prefix, but also as a preposition. Wikipedia has a good article about Über [1] "über etwas sprechen" -> "to speak about something" "über die Brücke" -> "across the bridge" [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%9Cber http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%9Cber
- pilif 13y ago
  or, in Uber's case, "above" probably works best: "weit über das Nötige hinaus" -> "far above what's necessary"
DasIch 13y ago
"Über" has no direct translation to English, it can only be translated in context. It can be translated to about, above, over, across, of, via, beyond and several other words.

NicoJuicy 13y ago

Well, the minister of mobility in Belgium also stopped Uber... Neelie Kroes says she is disappointed because of stopping innovation...

calibwam 13y ago

It is always better to attack competition than to become better yourself. - AT&T, Comcast, etc.

omnibrain 13y ago
From all I read Taxi business in Berlin is already a highly competitive market with low margin and low salaries for the drivers. I think this market does not need a downward spiral. Granted, my sources (taxi driver blogs) may be biased.
- wyager 13y ago
  > my sources (taxi driver blogs) So you trust the taxi drivers to tell you if their industry is "competitive enough"? Brb, I have to go ask comcast if the cable industry is competitive enough. There is no such thing as too much competition. Increased competition always has a net positive effect. Comcast and the taxi industry may suffer, but society will benefit.

merrua 13y ago

Pretty fair that they blocked it. Its basically an unregulated taxi service. Also the name is terrible for Germany.

travisp 13y ago
It's worth noting that in this context as far as I can tell, Uber's drivers and cars were regulated and licensed. They are allowed to drive limos for hire, but the law requires them to return to their place of business after a job (they aren't allowed to keep cars sitting around to pick up passengers). The google translation of the main complaint by the taxi association is "they keep taxe similar primarily in downtown ready to spontaneously pick up passengers." In other words, they don't wait to receive a call to get a car close and available to their passengers. So, while it's true that this is probably against the laws of the city, it's hard to see it as anything other than protectionism for taxis: there's no evidence that Uber was causing harm for passengers (or else they'd be talking about this), and there's no reason to believe that making a limo service return its cars to its place of business after each job is inherently better for consumers.
- Xylakant 13y ago
  In this context it's important to note that it's not a city law. Übers drivers violate the Personenbeförderungsgesetz which is a federal law. The injunction might have happened in all german cities, but this specific case seems to be about Berlin only. Most specifically Uber violates §49 ("Verkehr mit Mietomnibussen und mit Mietwagen"), Satz (4) which makes a very clear and distinct case that rental limousines must avoid confusion with Taxis. " Annahme, Vermittlung und Ausführung von Beförderungsaufträgen, das Bereithalten des Mietwagens sowie Werbung für Mietwagenverkehr dürfen weder allein noch in ihrer Verbindung geeignet sein, zur Verwechslung mit dem Taxenverkehr zu führen." The regulations concerning limos for hire are far lower than the regulations concerning cabs, most notably limos for hire are exempt from §21 (Betriebspflicht) and §22 (Beförderungspflicht). Basically cabs have to accept any customer and the law demands that they keep on providing (and even expanding) their service as deemed necessary by the city. It's like saying "oh, regular cars are regulated as well". The cabs in germany are regulated as part of the public transport. Uber tries to skirt that regulation and reap the benefits, while undermining the system - and by doing that they create damage to the consumers. Even if you assume there's no damage to the consumer it's not Uber that gets to decide which law applies and which needs disruption. I could think of a couple of laws that I think need disruption in my line of work (tax law, for example) but I don't get to choose either. http://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/pbefg/__49.html http://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/pbefg/__49.html

Genmutant 13y ago

It's strange that this took so long, and only in Berlin. If you want to drive a Taxi in Germany, you need a special driver's license. If you want to open a taxi company you need to prove that you are reliable and secure. Additionally you can't refuse a passenger (if there is nothing wrong with them) and can only charge the tarif the city says (+ additional charges like if it sunday or at night).

Xylakant 13y ago
> It's strange that this took so long, and only in Berlin. I'm not surprised that it's only in Berlin: Berlin and Munich are the only german cities Uber operates in. In addition to that you need standing to sue, so neither you nor me as a customer can sue. The injunction here is the result of a case started by a taxi company owner in Berlin, so it applies to Berlin only. I would assume that the Munich cab companies were waiting for this case to go through and might follow suit. It's important to note that this is _only_ a preliminary decision, the final court decision may be different. It's more of an indicator in which direction the court leans, but preliminary injunctions may be granted for reasons such as that continuing the service might create irreversible facts. (nb: I haven't read the injunction)
simfoo 13y ago
Exactly. And as the article shows in the end, it seems Uber did raise their fares according to high demand in at least one occasion in New York.
- Xylakant 13y ago
  That's a feature (Surge Pricing). The official reason is to get more cars on the road, but I bet they're not unhappy about pocketing more consumer money either.
  - thenewbtg 13y ago
    Surge Pricing is illegal in Berlin, and probably other European countries. And I imagine the illegality of price gouging ("surge pricing") while also skirting taxi regulation will be expanded dramatically in the coming years, all across much of Europe and blue states. Yes, you can profit when you find loopholes in regulations that your competitors can't take advantage of. Color me shocked.

peterjancelis 13y ago

In Brussels Uber (more specifically UberPOP) got banned as well.

zenbowman 13y ago

Good. Lawbreakers should be prosecuted. If the law is unjust, then change the law for all - don't allow some people to get away with it just because they are "tech companies" and continue to oppress the rest with the laws.

marcblackbeard 13y ago
Yeah, Uber is oppressing the german people by offering a better and cheaper service to them, they need to go away.
- zenbowman 13y ago
  That's not the point. The point is that if a non-internet taxi company did the same thing, they'd be in legal trouble. Even the playing field by lifting restrictions, or apply them evenly.