4 ms·

>Do not identify yourself as "an X programmer," or as anything else. Yet every single programming job post these days is basically looking for someone with X y

>Do not identify yourself as "an X programmer," or as anything else. Yet every single programming job post these days is basically looking for someone with X years of experience in a long enumeration of specific technologies. The usual reason being "They need to be productive. Now."

golergka 13y ago
In my experience, best jobs you get aren't posted — as best candidates don't send out resumes.
- Dewie 13y ago
  But we can't all be the best.
  - wirelessest 13y ago
    Not at first. But work with people you like and respect, and learn from them. Then ask them when looking for your next job. Any place worth working isn't looking for the absolute best candidate for X at any cost. A good fit with someone with a good work ethic who wants to learn always works out better than just raw expertise. And a reference from someone you both respect is the fastest most reliable place to find them.
    - vog 13y ago
      > Any place worth working isn't looking for the absolute best candidate for X at any cost That's so true. If they absolutely need the best candidate, they are about to run a very risky project. Good management means, among others, to ensure that new people have the opportunity to learn and to "get into" the project. If management requires the "best" developers, it really means that the management is bad and the developers are supposed to make up for that. (Having said that, there are also people who are simply a sunken cost. That is, managing them requires more resources than the value they produce. However, that's the other end of the scale, and a separate topic.)
    - zipfle 13y ago
      Whenever I hear this, I find I don't recognize the world the poster lives in. Is it a thing to tell coworkers when you're looking for a new job? If not, how many jobs do you need to have and leave before you have a big enough network for this to be a viable strategy? How do you get those jobs?
      - Kevguy 13y ago
        It really depends on the co-worker and the culture of the company. Sometimes I would tell co-workers, sometimes I wouldn't say anything because I was concerned they would leak that to management and I would be asked to leave before I was ready. I have found user groups meetings a great place to network though. Everyone is helpful when someone says they are looking, even if it is that persons first time at a meeting.
  - 8_hours_ago 13y ago
    The rest of us just say that we are an 'X' programmer when applying for a job that requires the 'X' programming language, and then during the interview mention that we also know a bunch of other languages and know how to use the correct tool for a problem ;)
  - knodi123 13y ago
    Take me, for example. ;-)
- groovy2shoes 13y ago
  In my experience, networking plays a huge role in landing a good job. Replying to job posts should be a last resort.
wglb 13y ago
I think that is also because hiring is generally busted, and recruiters who are not programmers don't know what else to ask.
- cust_support 13y ago
  I totally agree with you that hiring is busted. I have done a lot of phone screens over the past few years and I make a point to ask only technical questions in order to weed out the the 56% of programming noobs who just want to make a million dollars and cash out. However, I've noticed over this same time period that these screeners stumble into the office for a follow-up interview like giant toddlers: disheveled, incoherent, and totally self-involved. I wish this stereotype of the socially-awkward-yet-brilliant hacker would die in flames because it is not reality (or at best 2% of the community). Instead, this cultural delusion is convincing the socially awkward masses to seek out a job that is mostly about working closely with others, communicating constantly, and continuous compromise. I have children in their 20's and I've seen how hard it can be to find your calling in life, but just because 99% of douche-bags earn a spot on reality tv that doesn't mean all stereotypes are true. Don't choose a job that you think fits your personality but that actually requires you to behave differently because you'll be miserable.

golergka 13y ago

In my experience, best jobs you get aren't posted — as best candidates don't send out resumes.

Dewie 13y ago
But we can't all be the best.
- wirelessest 13y ago
  Not at first. But work with people you like and respect, and learn from them. Then ask them when looking for your next job. Any place worth working isn't looking for the absolute best candidate for X at any cost. A good fit with someone with a good work ethic who wants to learn always works out better than just raw expertise. And a reference from someone you both respect is the fastest most reliable place to find them.
  - vog 13y ago
    > Any place worth working isn't looking for the absolute best candidate for X at any cost That's so true. If they absolutely need the best candidate, they are about to run a very risky project. Good management means, among others, to ensure that new people have the opportunity to learn and to "get into" the project. If management requires the "best" developers, it really means that the management is bad and the developers are supposed to make up for that. (Having said that, there are also people who are simply a sunken cost. That is, managing them requires more resources than the value they produce. However, that's the other end of the scale, and a separate topic.)
  - zipfle 13y ago
    Whenever I hear this, I find I don't recognize the world the poster lives in. Is it a thing to tell coworkers when you're looking for a new job? If not, how many jobs do you need to have and leave before you have a big enough network for this to be a viable strategy? How do you get those jobs?
    - Kevguy 13y ago
      It really depends on the co-worker and the culture of the company. Sometimes I would tell co-workers, sometimes I wouldn't say anything because I was concerned they would leak that to management and I would be asked to leave before I was ready. I have found user groups meetings a great place to network though. Everyone is helpful when someone says they are looking, even if it is that persons first time at a meeting.
- 8_hours_ago 13y ago
  The rest of us just say that we are an 'X' programmer when applying for a job that requires the 'X' programming language, and then during the interview mention that we also know a bunch of other languages and know how to use the correct tool for a problem ;)
- knodi123 13y ago
  Take me, for example. ;-)
groovy2shoes 13y ago
In my experience, networking plays a huge role in landing a good job. Replying to job posts should be a last resort.

wglb 13y ago

I think that is also because hiring is generally busted, and recruiters who are not programmers don't know what else to ask.

cust_support 13y ago
I totally agree with you that hiring is busted. I have done a lot of phone screens over the past few years and I make a point to ask only technical questions in order to weed out the the 56% of programming noobs who just want to make a million dollars and cash out. However, I've noticed over this same time period that these screeners stumble into the office for a follow-up interview like giant toddlers: disheveled, incoherent, and totally self-involved. I wish this stereotype of the socially-awkward-yet-brilliant hacker would die in flames because it is not reality (or at best 2% of the community). Instead, this cultural delusion is convincing the socially awkward masses to seek out a job that is mostly about working closely with others, communicating constantly, and continuous compromise. I have children in their 20's and I've seen how hard it can be to find your calling in life, but just because 99% of douche-bags earn a spot on reality tv that doesn't mean all stereotypes are true. Don't choose a job that you think fits your personality but that actually requires you to behave differently because you'll be miserable.