4 ms·

Once upon a time, when I was younger, I felt very strongly that I needed a computer with everything replaceable. I wanted to replace a CPU when it got too slow

by abruzzi 13y ago

Once upon a time, when I was younger, I felt very strongly that I needed a computer with everything replaceable. I wanted to replace a CPU when it got too slow, new graphics card, upgradable RAM, storage, etc. But I found that in the end while I'd make small upgrades, I still replaced my computers at close to the same rate. That because some standard that was built into the old machine was no longer fast enough or wide enough for newer uses, or an interconnect standard changed (think ISA, to PCI, to PCI-X, to PCI-e) The other reason is while i could upgrade some parts, I couldn't upgrade all the parts, and pretty soon those parts were now two or three years old. They were no longer as reliable as a brand new system. I wonder with these modular phone ideas, if we're looking at the beige box PC industry all over? And whether it will be a good fit to mobile or whether you'll buy your modular system in a year, and then find in another two years that there is a new modular interconnect version without backwards compatibility, and gradually you won't be able to find modules that work with your current frame, so you have to replace that, and maybe the some of your old modules don't work with the new frame, so you have to replace them at the same time. Like a lot of beige bok PC geek, you'll end up with a drawer of old modules in a drawer that you hardly ever find a need for, but you cant bring yourself to throw them away unless they're actually broke. The smart person will just buy all new modules when they replace the frame (that what most people did when they replaced their beige box, because why upgrade but still carry over that old junky graphics card). Pretty soon your at a point where the primary benefit of modularity in not upgrading pieces, but the ability to spec exactly the phone you want when buying. But in reality there are a lot of phones on the market now, and you can come pretty close. I don't know that this will be the case, but its how I'd bet it would end up playing out.

netcan 13y ago
I think the PC analogy is wrong. I also framing this as money saving option is wrong. The potential is in flexibility. Phones are small. Tradeoffs are substantial. Some people would prefer 50% more battery life at the expense of the camera or weight. Maybe someone can make an e-ink screen that will double battery life. Some people might want to spend $800 on the camera. IMO, that's the benefit. Commercially, I see this as something can keep buying add ons to. The market of people who buy 2-3 pricey covers for an ipad is legit. People like their phones and add ons might sell because people will just want to buy new things for them. In that sense, maybe this will extend life a little or partially as you take some old modules with you, but that's not the point. The point is can flexibility let people make a phone they like better and enjoy doing it.
- abruzzi 13y ago
  Perhaps, but (at least in Android) existing phone selection gives a pretty wide range of possibilities without incurring the drawbacks of the modular design. Admittedly, you can't buy a phone with high end CPU/memory/storage and low end screen, but I suspect there is a fair amount of predictability in what people will pair together. I think you find a lot of people who would buy a top of the line phone with everything--i.e. the equivalent of a flagship Samsung phone--and a lot of people that that are not spec/capability focused that want it to basically work--who would be happy with most 'free with contract' type phones, and the people that want that unique mix of features are a small minority. This is my experience with most of the people that I know or work with, and it could be selection bias. But I don't work in a tech hub. I work with people that make low to mid range salaries at a local government agency in one of the poorer parts of the county.
  - Zak 13y ago
    (at least in Android) existing phone selection gives a pretty wide range of possibilities No, it doesn't. None of the following exist with an up-to-date version of Android (at least 4.3) and medium to high specs (comparable to a Moto X or better): * A slider form-factor with a physical keyboard. I have one friend who keeps buying old phones to have that, and another who kept her Droid 4 until it broke despite the option of a free upgrade. * Something roughly iPhone-sized; the Moto X and Sony Z1 Compact are small by Android flagship standards, but considerably wider than iPhones and hard for anyone with hands smaller than the average American male to use one-handed. * A ruggedized design. I don't mean simply dust and waterproof like recent models from Samsung and Sony, but capable of withstanding significant abuse. Some cases partly compensate, but what I'm thinking of would probably require a thick layer of tempered glass over the screen and a digitizer intended to compensate for the reduction in sensitivity. I know people who would buy each of these. I'm almost certain that a smartphone manufacturer outside of the top 3 that did a good job making any one of these three options would increase its profits significantly.
    - nwienert 13y ago
      I don't think a modular phone factor like shown here solves any of those problems though... * A sliding keyboard requires pretty intense engineering within the body * It seems ara is targeting very large and very small sizes, but not something like an iPhone. Even if it does, it doesn't solve the "I want a phone thats size X", it still limits your choice of size. Further, I wouldn't call this[0] "considerably wider". * These phones are guaranteed to be much more fragile than current phones, that's a tradeoff of modularity. So really, though I understand your desire, in the context of Project Ara all of these requirements are met better by current available smartphones. [0] http://www.phonearena.com/phones/size/Sony-Xperia-Z1-Compact,Apple-iPhone-5s/phones/8283,7710 http://www.phonearena.com/phones/size/Sony-Xperia-Z1-Compact...
habosa 13y ago
Small point in your thoughtful comment but I wanted to add that I had the exact same sensation when I got the iPod Nano first-gen. I got it as a gift and it only had 8GB capacity, I had 20GB+ of music at the time. Still, I almost decided to keep the nano over a full-sized iPod because it just felt so damn magical. I felt like I had the future in my pocket and I'd rather lose 60% of my music than let it go.
donrhummy 13y ago
The difference is the base of the Project Ara phone, the exoskeleton, is only $15 to replace. So if they change that, you're looking at paying $15. With PCs, the base still costs $150-200 in most cheap options and significantly more in others.
mturmon 13y ago
Google might benefit strategically from a market where phones are commoditized down at the hardware subsystem level. This would further disempower hardware integrators like Samsung. The analogy is Microsoft:beige box::Google:component phone.
- jayd16 13y ago
  I'm fairly certain this is the real goal of the project.
- userbinator 13y ago
  > where phones are commoditized down at the hardware subsystem level This is already happening with the various Chinese manufacturers and the Mediatek MT65xx platform. There are literally hundreds if not thousands of different models, all slightly different looking and with different dimensions, but based on the same internal reference design with minor changes, often to the point of ROM interchangeability.
icoder 13y ago
I agree but want to add that altbough like you I did not often upgrade my PC, I did replace broken stuff like a fan, power supply, harddrive for a fraction the cost of a new PC. I also extended with extra, not better, hardware like a card reader and bluetooth. Also one or two times I did upgrade (ie memory). Taken together all this probably doubled or tripled the life of my PC and I can see this extrapolated to phones as well. For instance I'd love to add, say, NFC and Bluetooth LT to my Samsung S2 and use it one or two more years.

by abruzzi 13y ago

netcan 13y ago

I think the PC analogy is wrong. I also framing this as money saving option is wrong. The potential is in flexibility. Phones are small. Tradeoffs are substantial. Some people would prefer 50% more battery life at the expense of the camera or weight. Maybe someone can make an e-ink screen that will double battery life. Some people might want to spend $800 on the camera. IMO, that's the benefit. Commercially, I see this as something can keep buying add ons to. The market of people who buy 2-3 pricey covers for an ipad is legit. People like their phones and add ons might sell because people will just want to buy new things for them. In that sense, maybe this will extend life a little or partially as you take some old modules with you, but that's not the point. The point is can flexibility let people make a phone they like better and enjoy doing it.

abruzzi 13y ago
Perhaps, but (at least in Android) existing phone selection gives a pretty wide range of possibilities without incurring the drawbacks of the modular design. Admittedly, you can't buy a phone with high end CPU/memory/storage and low end screen, but I suspect there is a fair amount of predictability in what people will pair together. I think you find a lot of people who would buy a top of the line phone with everything--i.e. the equivalent of a flagship Samsung phone--and a lot of people that that are not spec/capability focused that want it to basically work--who would be happy with most 'free with contract' type phones, and the people that want that unique mix of features are a small minority. This is my experience with most of the people that I know or work with, and it could be selection bias. But I don't work in a tech hub. I work with people that make low to mid range salaries at a local government agency in one of the poorer parts of the county.
- Zak 13y ago
  (at least in Android) existing phone selection gives a pretty wide range of possibilities No, it doesn't. None of the following exist with an up-to-date version of Android (at least 4.3) and medium to high specs (comparable to a Moto X or better): * A slider form-factor with a physical keyboard. I have one friend who keeps buying old phones to have that, and another who kept her Droid 4 until it broke despite the option of a free upgrade. * Something roughly iPhone-sized; the Moto X and Sony Z1 Compact are small by Android flagship standards, but considerably wider than iPhones and hard for anyone with hands smaller than the average American male to use one-handed. * A ruggedized design. I don't mean simply dust and waterproof like recent models from Samsung and Sony, but capable of withstanding significant abuse. Some cases partly compensate, but what I'm thinking of would probably require a thick layer of tempered glass over the screen and a digitizer intended to compensate for the reduction in sensitivity. I know people who would buy each of these. I'm almost certain that a smartphone manufacturer outside of the top 3 that did a good job making any one of these three options would increase its profits significantly.
  - nwienert 13y ago
    I don't think a modular phone factor like shown here solves any of those problems though... * A sliding keyboard requires pretty intense engineering within the body * It seems ara is targeting very large and very small sizes, but not something like an iPhone. Even if it does, it doesn't solve the "I want a phone thats size X", it still limits your choice of size. Further, I wouldn't call this[0] "considerably wider". * These phones are guaranteed to be much more fragile than current phones, that's a tradeoff of modularity. So really, though I understand your desire, in the context of Project Ara all of these requirements are met better by current available smartphones. [0] http://www.phonearena.com/phones/size/Sony-Xperia-Z1-Compact,Apple-iPhone-5s/phones/8283,7710 http://www.phonearena.com/phones/size/Sony-Xperia-Z1-Compact...

habosa 13y ago

Small point in your thoughtful comment but I wanted to add that I had the exact same sensation when I got the iPod Nano first-gen. I got it as a gift and it only had 8GB capacity, I had 20GB+ of music at the time. Still, I almost decided to keep the nano over a full-sized iPod because it just felt so damn magical. I felt like I had the future in my pocket and I'd rather lose 60% of my music than let it go.

donrhummy 13y ago

The difference is the base of the Project Ara phone, the exoskeleton, is only $15 to replace. So if they change that, you're looking at paying $15. With PCs, the base still costs $150-200 in most cheap options and significantly more in others.

mturmon 13y ago

Google might benefit strategically from a market where phones are commoditized down at the hardware subsystem level. This would further disempower hardware integrators like Samsung. The analogy is Microsoft:beige box::Google:component phone.

jayd16 13y ago
I'm fairly certain this is the real goal of the project.
userbinator 13y ago
> where phones are commoditized down at the hardware subsystem level This is already happening with the various Chinese manufacturers and the Mediatek MT65xx platform. There are literally hundreds if not thousands of different models, all slightly different looking and with different dimensions, but based on the same internal reference design with minor changes, often to the point of ROM interchangeability.

icoder 13y ago

I agree but want to add that altbough like you I did not often upgrade my PC, I did replace broken stuff like a fan, power supply, harddrive for a fraction the cost of a new PC. I also extended with extra, not better, hardware like a card reader and bluetooth. Also one or two times I did upgrade (ie memory). Taken together all this probably doubled or tripled the life of my PC and I can see this extrapolated to phones as well. For instance I'd love to add, say, NFC and Bluetooth LT to my Samsung S2 and use it one or two more years.