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I wanted to donate to my favourite private tracker recently. They only take bitcoin. So I thought no worries, I'll sign up to coinbase. They were the suggest

I wanted to donate to my favourite private tracker recently. They only take bitcoin. So I thought no worries, I'll sign up to coinbase. They were the suggested easy-to-sign-up-to way to get bitcoins. (I don't know about wallets or mining, I'm just your average Internet joe) They wanted copies of my passport and drivers license. I laughed and closed my newly created account. Until the process of being able to get bitcoins is simple and easy, expecting people to part with them for donations is unrealistic in my opinion. (Please don't follow up with 20 "easy" ways I could have gotten bitcoins, after that experience I really don't care)

astrowilliam 13y ago
That's weird. When I signed up with Coinbase I didn't have to supply any of that information. Are you based outside the USA?
- muppetman 13y ago
  Yes, I live in New Zealand. As another poster has said, it appears to be due to US money laundering laws.
  - astrowilliam 13y ago
    Ahh, ok. That would explain it. I can see their point, it helps cut down on illegal activity. But it's also a pain for users like yourself who would have really enjoyed their service.
mikepurvis 13y ago
I'm in a similar position—I'd like to purchase a small amount of BTC, but am not willing to use my credit card or send photocopies of ID papers over the internet to do so. I suspect that I should simply attend a meetup in my city and do an in-person transaction for cash. But all of that is additionally complicated by the fact that I don't use a smartphone. :)
- boyter 13y ago
  If you are prepared to take a hit on multiple exchanges you can buy Bitcoin using https://www.virwox.com/‎ https://www.virwox.com/‎ using Paypal. You input Dollars use that to buy Linden then use that to buy Bitcoin. You pay exchange fees for each transaction, and you are limited to small amounts each month till you gain credibility, but it is possible.
ossreality 13y ago
>(Please don't follow up with 20 "easy" ways I could have gotten bitcoins, after that experience I really don't care) I know no one can see it, but fuck you for even writing that. "I'm ignorant and don't want to be enlightened" What a fucking pathetic attitude to have displayed as a top comment on an HN submission.
ekianjo 13y ago
> They wanted copies of my passport and drivers license. If you go to a bank and try to create a bank account, do you laugh when they ask you for your ID and proof of residence? :)
- eropple 13y ago
  This isn't a good comparison. I have no reason to trust Coinbase and my options for recourse are minimal if they end up being shitty. My bank is an institution with capital assets in my city. I know where they are. They have an address and it's local. I can talk to a manager, face to face, if there is a problem. (And have.) (And my bank has a better security record than Bitcoin companies have thus far shown, besides.)
  - yukinon 13y ago
    How do you feel about online banks, like Ally?
    - eropple 13y ago
      I don't use them. I like having someone whose office I can sit in and very politely refuse to leave until things work out to everyone's satisfaction.
    - JohnTHaller 13y ago
      Ally is a bank and regulated as one, even though they're 'online'. Coinbase is not regulated as a bank. They're not even regulated under the much looser guidelines of a money transmitter.
  - ekianjo 13y ago
    Yeah, but bitcoin businesses may have to follow the same regulations no matter what if they considered as dealing currencies (depends on your local jurisdiction). That's what it boils down to. It's probably not Coinbase who independently implemented this requirement.
    - 13y ago
sroerick 13y ago
It's important to note that this is to comply with US money laundering laws. There's no technical reason for this to be the case.
- muppetman 13y ago
  Ahhh ok, thank you, I wasn't aware of that. Why isn't it the case with Paypal etc?
  - RussianCow 13y ago
    Presumably because PayPal transactions are reversible; Bitcoin transactions are not.
  - rtpg 13y ago
    If you try to put money into Paypal you'll likely create some link with a verified source (credit card, bank account). So if some investigation were to happen Paypal at least has some hints as to your real identity. With coinbase people could put in their (mined) bitcoins, and then sell them. In that case Coinbase has effectively no way of figuring out who you are.
    - stingraycharles 13y ago
      What happens with the money after you sell them? That has to go somewhere, and couldn't that create the "link" required?
      - rtpg 13y ago
        Yeah I thought of that, I think banks/money handling services have responsibilities before the actual pulling out though (probably like how pawn shops can't accept goods without ID).
  - jonknee 13y ago
    PayPal is a reversible transaction where they know their customer (who you are paying), so they don't take risk when accepting your credit card. In BTC unless you have it already you need to become the customer of an exchange to first buy BTC and the laws there make it such that they need government ID. There are alternatives like mining it yourself (very hard) or meeting someone in person and paying cash (you'll pay a premium).
SilasX 13y ago
True, if you use a third party, you lose many of the benefits of Bitcoin, and the existing client programs may not be very good at helping you integrate. But you don't need to use a third party, so you don't need to give anyone any ID (or put up with their hassles), so long as you just want to receive BTC without converting back. You just download a bitcoin client, and it generates addresses for you. Give out the address, and you're done -- people know where to sent it, and you can receive them. Naturally, you'd want to make sure the private keys to those generated addresses are backed up and safe.
- ekianjo 13y ago
  > But you don't need to use a third party But how do you get bitcoins in the first place without going through an Exchange ?
  - SilasX 13y ago
    Ah, seems I misunderstood the situation -- I was thinking of the article's use case (of simply wanting to receive BTC as donations) rather than the GGP's problem, which was getting the BTC in order to donate.
- muppetman 13y ago
  I just wanted to donate money though. Even if I download a wallet app thing, how do I transfer my actual currency to BTC? I still need an exchange don't I? Then I buy "already mined" coins in exchange for my dollars, so I can then donate them.
  - jonknee 13y ago
    That's the problem, it's only easy to get BTC from someone else with BTC. It's hard to get BTC for USD and get USD for BTC. Most USD transactions that are not in cash are reversible and no BTC transactions are, that makes it very tough to get BTC on the internet. Add in all the know your customer laws to prevent money laundering and it's very difficult to exchange BTC for USB without effectively setting up a new bank account.
ojr 13y ago
They didnt ask for my passport and drivers license because I live in the US but if they did it wouldn't push me away, its not like I have a million dollars to money launder, and in the group of Bitcoin users, I am a small fish I got rejected from one exchange that asked for a driver's license and proof of address, my driver license was ok but my proof of address was not, three days later that same exchange, MtGox, goes down. It is very easy to call a Bitcoin-based company a joke but I think Coinbase is a legitimate company.
j_s 13y ago
https://www.tinkercoin.com/ https://www.tinkercoin.com/ will be nice, $20 worth of BitCoin one time.
jcampbell1 13y ago
> private tracker Just to be clear, this is some sort of bittorrent thing that operates somewhere between gray and black. You want to donate, but aren't interested in having your name tied to it?
- muppetman 13y ago
  Correct. Nor are they interested in having their name tied to the transaction either I guess!

astrowilliam 13y ago

That's weird. When I signed up with Coinbase I didn't have to supply any of that information. Are you based outside the USA?

muppetman 13y ago
Yes, I live in New Zealand. As another poster has said, it appears to be due to US money laundering laws.
- astrowilliam 13y ago
  Ahh, ok. That would explain it. I can see their point, it helps cut down on illegal activity. But it's also a pain for users like yourself who would have really enjoyed their service.

mikepurvis 13y ago

I'm in a similar position—I'd like to purchase a small amount of BTC, but am not willing to use my credit card or send photocopies of ID papers over the internet to do so. I suspect that I should simply attend a meetup in my city and do an in-person transaction for cash. But all of that is additionally complicated by the fact that I don't use a smartphone. :)

boyter 13y ago
If you are prepared to take a hit on multiple exchanges you can buy Bitcoin using https://www.virwox.com/‎ https://www.virwox.com/‎ using Paypal. You input Dollars use that to buy Linden then use that to buy Bitcoin. You pay exchange fees for each transaction, and you are limited to small amounts each month till you gain credibility, but it is possible.

ossreality 13y ago

>(Please don't follow up with 20 "easy" ways I could have gotten bitcoins, after that experience I really don't care) I know no one can see it, but fuck you for even writing that. "I'm ignorant and don't want to be enlightened" What a fucking pathetic attitude to have displayed as a top comment on an HN submission.

ekianjo 13y ago

> They wanted copies of my passport and drivers license. If you go to a bank and try to create a bank account, do you laugh when they ask you for your ID and proof of residence? :)

eropple 13y ago
This isn't a good comparison. I have no reason to trust Coinbase and my options for recourse are minimal if they end up being shitty. My bank is an institution with capital assets in my city. I know where they are. They have an address and it's local. I can talk to a manager, face to face, if there is a problem. (And have.) (And my bank has a better security record than Bitcoin companies have thus far shown, besides.)
- yukinon 13y ago
  How do you feel about online banks, like Ally?
  - eropple 13y ago
    I don't use them. I like having someone whose office I can sit in and very politely refuse to leave until things work out to everyone's satisfaction.
  - JohnTHaller 13y ago
    Ally is a bank and regulated as one, even though they're 'online'. Coinbase is not regulated as a bank. They're not even regulated under the much looser guidelines of a money transmitter.
- ekianjo 13y ago
  Yeah, but bitcoin businesses may have to follow the same regulations no matter what if they considered as dealing currencies (depends on your local jurisdiction). That's what it boils down to. It's probably not Coinbase who independently implemented this requirement.
  - 13y ago

sroerick 13y ago

It's important to note that this is to comply with US money laundering laws. There's no technical reason for this to be the case.

muppetman 13y ago
Ahhh ok, thank you, I wasn't aware of that. Why isn't it the case with Paypal etc?
- RussianCow 13y ago
  Presumably because PayPal transactions are reversible; Bitcoin transactions are not.
- rtpg 13y ago
  If you try to put money into Paypal you'll likely create some link with a verified source (credit card, bank account). So if some investigation were to happen Paypal at least has some hints as to your real identity. With coinbase people could put in their (mined) bitcoins, and then sell them. In that case Coinbase has effectively no way of figuring out who you are.
  - stingraycharles 13y ago
    What happens with the money after you sell them? That has to go somewhere, and couldn't that create the "link" required?
    - rtpg 13y ago
      Yeah I thought of that, I think banks/money handling services have responsibilities before the actual pulling out though (probably like how pawn shops can't accept goods without ID).
- jonknee 13y ago
  PayPal is a reversible transaction where they know their customer (who you are paying), so they don't take risk when accepting your credit card. In BTC unless you have it already you need to become the customer of an exchange to first buy BTC and the laws there make it such that they need government ID. There are alternatives like mining it yourself (very hard) or meeting someone in person and paying cash (you'll pay a premium).

SilasX 13y ago

True, if you use a third party, you lose many of the benefits of Bitcoin, and the existing client programs may not be very good at helping you integrate. But you don't need to use a third party, so you don't need to give anyone any ID (or put up with their hassles), so long as you just want to receive BTC without converting back. You just download a bitcoin client, and it generates addresses for you. Give out the address, and you're done -- people know where to sent it, and you can receive them. Naturally, you'd want to make sure the private keys to those generated addresses are backed up and safe.

ekianjo 13y ago
> But you don't need to use a third party But how do you get bitcoins in the first place without going through an Exchange ?
- SilasX 13y ago
  Ah, seems I misunderstood the situation -- I was thinking of the article's use case (of simply wanting to receive BTC as donations) rather than the GGP's problem, which was getting the BTC in order to donate.
muppetman 13y ago
I just wanted to donate money though. Even if I download a wallet app thing, how do I transfer my actual currency to BTC? I still need an exchange don't I? Then I buy "already mined" coins in exchange for my dollars, so I can then donate them.
- jonknee 13y ago
  That's the problem, it's only easy to get BTC from someone else with BTC. It's hard to get BTC for USD and get USD for BTC. Most USD transactions that are not in cash are reversible and no BTC transactions are, that makes it very tough to get BTC on the internet. Add in all the know your customer laws to prevent money laundering and it's very difficult to exchange BTC for USB without effectively setting up a new bank account.

ojr 13y ago

They didnt ask for my passport and drivers license because I live in the US but if they did it wouldn't push me away, its not like I have a million dollars to money launder, and in the group of Bitcoin users, I am a small fish I got rejected from one exchange that asked for a driver's license and proof of address, my driver license was ok but my proof of address was not, three days later that same exchange, MtGox, goes down. It is very easy to call a Bitcoin-based company a joke but I think Coinbase is a legitimate company.

j_s 13y ago

https://www.tinkercoin.com/ https://www.tinkercoin.com/ will be nice, $20 worth of BitCoin one time.

jcampbell1 13y ago

> private tracker Just to be clear, this is some sort of bittorrent thing that operates somewhere between gray and black. You want to donate, but aren't interested in having your name tied to it?

muppetman 13y ago
Correct. Nor are they interested in having their name tied to the transaction either I guess!