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Hiring criteria at First Look Media: "Not white. Not male."
- hmgibson23 12y agoA hilarious backfiring of positive discrimination...
- trhway 12y agoin a zero-sum game my positive discrimination is your negative discrimination
- interstitial 12y agoI imagine this story to be off the HN front page any minute now.
- hmgibson23 12y agoWell predicted.
- hashbanged 12y agoAlmost instantly.
- therogerwilco 12y agoNice example of racism and sexism, at its finest
- carsongross 12y agoNow we see the violence inherent in the system... Elp! Elp! I'm being repressed!
- MrZongle2 12y agoApparently to enlightened members of society like editor John Cook, it's ok to discriminate against white guys.
- ba5ecamp 12y agoFirst Look hires white male editor to hire anyone but white male reporters. LOL
- bagels 12y agoDid they edit this? I don't see that in the link...
- protomyth 12y agoThe John Cook comment at 14 Apr 2014 at 12:34 pm
- jffry 12y agoNick Manes 14 Apr 2014 at 12:20 pm Are there particulars attributes or beats you’re looking to fill for as you staff up with reporters? John Cook 14 Apr 2014 at 12:34 pm Not white. Not male. Fast. Interested in reporting as a live, iterative process that plays out on the internet as well as one where you go away for six weeks and come back with 4,000 words. Eager to make a name for themselves. Beat-wise, intelligence and national security are obviously important to us at the initial stages, but I’m more interested in good capable people who can apply their skills to all manner of stories than subject-area experts.
- bagels 12y agoI see, in the comments. Thanks.
- chaghalibaghali 12y agoThe link is to a specific comment that the author replies to. Someone asks: "Are there particulars attributes or beats you’re looking to fill for as you staff up with reporters?" and he replies: "Not white. Not male. Fast. Interested in reporting as a live, iterative process that plays out on the internet as well as one where you go away for six weeks and come back with 4,000 words. Eager to make a name for themselves. Beat-wise, intelligence and national security are obviously important to us at the initial stages, but I’m more interested in good capable people who can apply their skills to all manner of stories than subject-area experts."
- astrodust 12y agoIt's a fair answer to a fair question. "What would you like to see?" is different from "What are your hiring criteria?" HN should be filled with outrage at the "discrimination" of job postings demanding 10 years of experience with Go or Rust.
- worklogin 12y agoIt was pointed out already: A firm started by Glenn Greenwald and edited by "John Cook" who I am assuming is as white as snow, putting discriminatory standards as their lead qualifiers.
- deleted 12y ago[deleted]
- hashbanged 12y agoPlease explain to me how this team of mostly white males is discriminating against white males? https://firstlook.org/theintercept/staff/ https://firstlook.org/theintercept/staff/
- treeface 12y agoMembership in a group doesn't preclude discrimination against that group. Total count: - 9 white males - 2 black males - 4 females - 1 unknown What strikes me as odd is that at a ratio of 9:6 (or 10:6/9:7), they have completely excluded an entire segment of candidates just to bring their ethnic and gender quotas more in line with what they'd like to see. The fact that it's discrimination is obvious, but whether or not that's bad is another question. If they are just doing so to make their office look more diverse for the sake of diversity, I would personally consider that to be bad business and ethically questionable. If they're trying to promote a broader scope of cultural experience in their writers, then perhaps it's better to discriminate based on experience, not ethnicity. If they think that women write inherently differently than men, then they have bigger problems related to sexism.
- hashbanged 12y ago> Membership in a group doesn't preclude discrimination against that group. No, but groups generally don't discriminate against themselves when they are the majority and hold the positions of authority? > If they're trying to promote a broader scope of cultural experience in their writers, then perhaps it's better to discriminate based on experience, not ethnicity. > broader scope of cultural experience > not ethnicity Care to define "cultural experience" and how it differs from ethnicity? > they have completely excluded an entire segment of candidates If you're going to carry on with that narrative, would you explain why you don't agree with my above rejection of such narrative? They are not excluding, they are valuing diversity since they have a lack of it. EDIT: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7594378 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7594378
- hashbanged 12y agoThis does not mean what most people are going to interpret it to mean. Here was the question: "Are there particulars attributes or beats you’re looking to fill" The way I interpret this is that given that they already hired a lot of white males, they are looking to hire more people who are not white males. But I'm sure plenty of people will use this mostly white male work place as an example of "reverse racism," somehow...
- lucisferre 12y agoSure but here at HN hiring for diversity is discrimination. Totally makes sense.
- MichaelAza 12y agoI get what he meant ("we're looking to create a diverse team") but the way he phrased it is just all kinds of wrong. Keeping a terse style doesn't justify saying silly things which I assume weren't meant literally.
- michaelrhansen 12y agoAnd this is a guy in journalism. Where communication is his career. Awesome.
- worklogin 12y agoBest comment so far. If his intention was to say "Diverse staff; we are looking for new and varied backgrounds and cultures to cover our stories", he should have said something along those lines to avoid the expected (and justified) "WTF" of saying they aren't accepting any more "privileged" positions.
- hashbanged 12y agoOr maybe we white males should just rest assured that we aren't being discriminated against, especially not by an organization of mostly white males, and think more carefully before we post things like this to HN. You knew exactly how people would interpret it, but you chose to ignore the context in which the question was asked.
- johnbm 12y agoLuckily we all know the diversity crowd is exceedingly generous when interpreting the words of people they disagree with, always giving others the benefit of doubt. Like ModelViewCulture and their ilk. No snap judgements and emotional outbursts at all, no sir!
- trhway 12y agoobligatory reference to affirmative actions in Undercover Brother. http://www.metacafe.com/watch/an-EJKebbn24hbmtn/undercover_brother_2002_conspiracy_theory/ http://www.metacafe.com/watch/an-EJKebbn24hbmtn/undercover_b...
- frandroid 12y agoOne of the comments: "I mean we all get you, and I agree with a strong approach to diversity, but that is just wrong." How does anyone think they're going to achieve diversity without diversity hiring?
- oskarth 12y agoI don't know what happened to my comment, but I posted something along these lines. You are kidding right? Where would firstlook be without Glenn Greenwald and Edward Snowden? Affirmative action is great, but this is absolutely ridiculous. To clarify, there's nothing wrong with having a strong policy to counter-act "normal" discrimination. What is wrong is explicitly discriminating against a group of people, regardless of who they are. This reminds me of some radical feminist fractions who say most books are not worth reading because they are written by dead, white, males [no citation]. It's absolutely true that white males are unfairly dominating the classics section, but the way to combat this is not to blacklist them. That's a recipe for disaster, and I'm quite certain Simone de Beauvoir would agree with me. EDIT: Since this will be part of the discussion, it's important to understand what affirmative action is. Here's the definition from Wikipedia: policy of providing special opportunities for, and favoring members of, a disadvantaged group who suffer from discrimination. It's about positive discrimination of disadvantaged groups, not elimination of advantaged groups. EDIT 2: This topic has been flagged already, but I'm writing this for future reference. What this seems to imply is that if a new Greenwald or Snowden comes along, they are explicitly not welcome. This is not affirmative action at all, it's just an unreflected usage of it, without understanding the true meaning or function of affirmative action. An organization with such an attitude will eventually die. I hope this was just a poorly worded reply from an individual that doesn't reflect how firstlook actually deals with these things.
- hashbanged 12y agoThis is what affirmative action is. They are not outright saying NO to white males, they are specifically looking for people who are not white males though, considering they already hired mostly white males. Read the comment he replied to. They did not say that they will not hire white males, because that would be ridiculous, considering that they are already mostly white males.
- greenyoda 12y ago"They are not outright saying NO to white males" Cook's statement was: "Not white. Not male." That seems to be pretty unambiguously saying "no" to white males. Affirmative action would be something along the lines of: "We encourage applications from women and ethnic minorities."
- xianshou 12y agoCan we just agree that evaluating anonymized work samples the way orchestras evaluate blind auditions would make things simpler and easier? http://www.theguardian.com/women-in-leadership/2013/oct/14/blind-auditions-orchestras-gender-bias http://www.theguardian.com/women-in-leadership/2013/oct/14/b...
- devilshaircut 12y agoI don't agree with that premise though. I agree you would end up with a complement of capable employees but it doesn't address culturally-embedded, systemic discrimination. That is what affirmative action is designed to address. I presume to respect your intellect, so I am sure you are aware that access to quality education is problematic for various ethnic and racial groups in the United States (and beyond - but I am specifically addressing affirmative action).
- ba5ecamp 12y agoJohn Cook has a bit of a cowboy/male bravado writing style which I don't think really fits stylistically with First Look/the Intercept but he also did interesting things at Gawker
- deleted 12y ago[deleted]
- devilshaircut 12y agoThe follow-up comments: > Malcolm Pollack 14 Apr 2014 at 2:33 pm > “Not white”? “Not male”? > How about “No Irish need apply”? > Imagine if you announced that you were looking to fill job openings, but didn’t want any women or blacks. > That this can be done so openly, so blithely — and that it is considered not an act of unconscionable bigotry and race war, but rather as a badge of honor — is very ominous indeed. > Ralph Thayer 14 Apr 2014 at 3:27 pm > “Not white. Not male.” > Noted. > BubbaMustafa 14 Apr 2014 at 5:56 pm > So you hate whites and males? That’s a blatant discriminatory statement. You have shown your true colors. Way to go! > LitThom 14 Apr 2014 at 6:04 pm > “Not white. Not male.” > That is just wrong. I mean we all get you, and I agree with a strong approach to diversity, but that is just wrong. > Will Cate 14 Apr 2014 at 8:02 pm > re “Not white. Not male.” > Thanks for letting us know that this is not an operation to be taken seriously. > JOC 14 Apr 2014 at 8:35 pm > It’s so hip to discourage employment of white males, especially if you are one (and already have a newsroom full of them.) #johncook’swhiteguilt > JOC 14 Apr 2014 at 8:49 pm > It’s so hip to discourage employment of white males, especially if you are one (and have a newsroom full of them).#johncookswhiteguilt speaks in terse, serious language. As a minority, I understand how these people feel; as a minority, it does however also bother me that these people react in such a reflexive manner. It is such a small percentage of times where people like that experience any sort of discrimination. Frankly, if I reacted in this reflexive manner every time I faced some mode of discrimination, the people I surround myself with would find me to be an insufferable, whiney brat. Strong language, perhaps, but I can think of no other way to characterize how I would be perceived in analogous circumstances.
- AnimalMuppet 12y agoBut hopefully, you do find ways to point out that this is not OK. I mean, it's not OK when it's done to a minority because of them being a minority. When it's done to white males because an outfit wants more diversity... meh, I can't get too excited about it, even though I'm white and male. Don't become an insufferable whiny brat. But don't stop trying to find effective ways to call out racism when you run into it, either.
- devilshaircut 12y ago
- deleted 12y ago[deleted]
- burntroots 12y agoWhen did HN become a gossip rag? Quote taken out of context. Nothing to see here, move along.