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A Non-Techie Tries to Build a Tech Company

46 points by scottkduncan 12y ago

zht 12y ago
Please don't put your engineers (or any one else in your company) on death marches.
Domenic_S 12y ago
TL;DR: Founder makes mistake after mistake, blames other people, then finds a famous & rich engineer, suddenly stops making mistakes.
- swalsh 12y ago
  I was going to join the hate sphere here, but getting Lars, of all people interested in your vision enough to work on it (even if its simply an advisory role). She's clearly has something going for her.
- leonatan 12y ago
  Isn't this always the case? A company that has at its top someone not familiar with the field of the company is almost always doomed.
- hga 12y ago
  In all fairness, she also learned a lot of important things, some before that point. Including the very important lesson that if you don't understand the web site your contractors have developed, your potential customers probably won't either. Getting the UI stuff right is just as important as implementing it solidly.
ironchef 12y ago
"I’ve also discovered that nothing is more motivating than a high profile, non-negotiable deadline." Sweet jesus no. If you don't understand what is required do NOT sign your team up for that. That's what causes death marches. Now if you had the team already analyze the opportunity and prototype "the hard parts" then by all means go for it :)
- hga 12y ago
  I found that bit suspect as well, but I think this guy is more flexible, e.g. look at her discussions on features vs. making things sold. The one deadline she mentioned was implicitly a decision, "we will launch at X event". That eliminates the first general problem with these, they're usually artificial (vs. what I like to refer to as the "pesky" customer challenge). It also allows for the right sort of deadline bargaining, what shall we present then? Vs. the "I think I can do this in 4 weeks" which the worst managers take as a starting negotiating position.
- binarysolo 12y ago
  The followup text: "Our team performed brilliantly in the month leading up to our launch at the South by Southwest festival; they worked day and night. Now I look for major events that we can all work toward every three months. It’s a great way to keep everyone pointing in the same direction and working fast." Ugh, I'm really not sure this founder learned the right lesson here either. I'm hoping there's an unspoken here that deadlines are being set in a less-arbitrary method grounded with a technical reality check.
  - rhizome 12y ago
    "The death march was a complete success!"
- hagbardgroup 12y ago
  More wisdom from the "Talent Management Secrets of Joseph Kony."
- mattm 12y ago
  > Within a few months, we had a team of four. Development seemed slow and our live site was littered with bugs. Our team didn’t seem driven; they all finished work each day at 5:30. I remember watching “The Social Network” and admiring the passion and intelligence of the group of young engineers. My team didn’t look like that. I think the real lesson is she hired the wrong team. In all fairness, it's a tough thing to do seeing as she had no technical background to evaluate them. Finishing work at 5:30 is a good thing but slow development and a site "littered with bugs" is something that shouldn't happen, especially with such a small team.
devanti 12y ago
According to LinkedIn the CTO left the company
- hga 12y ago
  Was this recent? From the path she described I'd expect an event like this sometime earlier.
____a 12y ago
The founder/author is a woman. There appears to be confusion with pronouns in most comments here.
seivan 12y ago
Another person without domain knowledge nor technical skillset to write the software needed. Maybe the person in question does sales. But nothing warrants death marches.
michaelochurch 12y ago
She sounds horrible and I hope she fails. First, there's her focus on hours. Our team didn’t seem driven; they all finished work each day at 5:30. I remember watching “The Social Network” and admiring the passion and intelligence of the group of young engineers. My team didn’t look like that. She wasn't unhappy because of the bugs. She was unhappy because her team didn't look like a star team. (How many stars would put up with her attitude?) What a fucking narcissist. Second and related, there's her use of The Social Network to get a sense of what programmers are supposed to "look" like. That's offensive on so many damn levels I can't keep track of 'em all. The kicker, though, is this: Because I’m a non-techie boss, my engineers know that I don’t understand how much time they will need to complete a task, __a deficiency that I’m sure they sometimes exploit__ (emphasis mine) and that I find incredibly frustrating. What. A. Fucking. Bitch. New York is swarming with non-technical douchebags whose connections get them some seed capital and possibly enough resources and client contacts to get started, and maybe even hire a few talented but clueless engineers who'll throw long hours after a bad idea. Avoid those types. They're horrible. They aren't successes in their own sphere (if they were good in the business game, they'd be in finance or consulting) and they aren't technical either, so you can't learn fuck-all from them. A great business partner, you could learn from. The sad fact, though, is that the rock stars of the business world have zero interest in the VC-funded startup world. Tech 8+ like me can't find our equals in the VC-funded world (Damaso Effect) because Biz 8s are CEOs' proteges and portfolio managers at hedge funds. Not everyone who isn't technical sucks, for sure. However, the business world sends its rejects to manage nerds and nowhere is that more apparent than when one reads articles like this. There are great Harvard and Stanford MBAs, but they don't seem to end up as "business co-founders". They go into private equity, hedge funds, and CEO-protege type roles in business and stay there. Finally, if you're going to found a tech company, learn technology. Learn to code well enough to understand why software engineering is hard (so you don't become that douchebag who thinks he could do the programmers' jobs with a year of training), learn how to deal with 140+ IQ people, learn how to identify useful problems, and learn enough about software culture that you're not using a fucking movie for pointers.
- jonmrodriguez 12y ago
  > What. A. Fucking. Bitch. Although I agree with your general assessment of Campbell, I think you should change your wording here. It's not right (IMHO) to use gendered insults. That sounds sexist, I think. Much better to just say "What. A. Fucking. Asshole." and leave gender out of it.
invalidOrTaken 12y ago
I am not a "techie," unless you'd like to be the "bookie" or the "accountie," or perhaps "presentie." Who am I kidding: these engineers have earned their place by subordinating to someone like this.
mixologic 12y ago
Wow. That was torturous to read. Then I saw how often that the nytimes lets her spew this awful mentality: http://boss.blogs.nytimes.com/author/rebekah-campbell/ http://boss.blogs.nytimes.com/author/rebekah-campbell/
morgante 12y ago
This reads as how to run a company poorly and how to build a terrible company culture. Some gems: > they all finished work each day at 5:30. I remember watching “The Social Network” and admiring the passion and intelligence of the group of young engineers. Yep, a fictional movie about the founders of a social network is definitely a good benchmark for how much your engineers should be working—not standard professional hours. > We’ve been through three [lead designers]. Yes, blame the designers for ridiculously high turnover, where you have 3 people in the same position within a year. > a deficiency that I’m sure they sometimes exploit Right. Not trusting your technical employees and assuming they are trying to exploit you is a fantastic way to inspire passion and trust. In fairness, since she seems to be a pretty big fan of exploiting others, it's natural that she'd expect the same. > they worked day and night That is not a desirable thing, it should be considered a mistake in planning which must be avoided in the future. All in all, it sounds like she's building a terrible company to work for. Not surprising that she's (according to Crunchbase) only raised $500k.
- namenotrequired 12y ago
  Great comment, and I agree with all your points, except: > Yes, blame the designers for ridiculously high turnover, where you have 3 people in the same position within a year. She doesn't blame the designers anywhere. The only one she blames even implicitly is herself, in the paragraph that follows on the one you quoted. > Not surprising that she's (according to Crunchbase) only raised $500k. You seem to be implying that raising half a million dollars is a failure, but perhaps you're still using irony there.
  - hkarthik 12y ago
    > You seem to be implying that raising half a million dollars is a failure, but perhaps you're still using irony there. I don't know that I can call it a success either. It's like gaining admission into a competitive university. Hard to pull off for many people, but just the first step on a long road to success if everything goes well.
nowarninglabel 12y ago
Wait, she also works for the NY Times as a columnist (according to her LinkedIn profile)? Is this a blog or an ad?
- _zen 12y ago
  She's an NY Times columnist writing about her start up experiences. She only has one start up, so it's the one she talks about in all her blog posts.
  - patrickshampine 12y ago
    She also links to her personal blog on the posse navigation. This girl goes full circle of self promotion..
    - hagbardgroup 12y ago
      Stop thinkfluencer-shaming!!!!
funkyy 12y ago
"To continue reading this article, please log in or register for free." Like... seriously? Its 2014, not 2004...
- jpwright 12y ago
  Newspapers still gotta make money even in 2014.
  - funkyy 12y ago
    Well I thought most of online newspapers make money with advertising and offering corporate services and tools... But hey, what do I know.
    - jpwright 12y ago
      Getting people to sign up for an account is part of their advertising strategy.
notastartup 12y ago
It’s an unwritten law of nature that development always takes longer than predicted. Because I’m a non-techie boss, my engineers know that I don’t understand how much time they will need to complete a task, a deficiency that I’m sure they sometimes exploit and that I find incredibly frustrating. A) Doesn't understand domain, doesn't understand the problem. B) Automatically assumes some weird laws of nature. C) Indulge in paranoia and mistrust to compensate for ignorance. D) Blame others and get frustrated. E) Write an article about it
- ldng 12y ago
  F) Profit. Literally. Sadly.
watwut 12y ago
"Our team performed brilliantly in the month leading up to our launch at the South by Southwest festival; they worked day and night. Now I look for major events that we can all work toward every three months." Essentially, she is punishing success and hard work. I worked for a company similar in this aspect. Employee got given tight high pressure deadline. When he made it, he was rewarded by another tight high pressure project. And so on until employee either did not made some or left. The company had two types of employees: active newcomers and slow everyone else. It is not exactly the same dysfunction, but kind of similar. I think that she severely underestimates what this kind of treatment do with people.
- goshx 12y ago
  Came here to make the same comment. Bosses often believe that this move is motivational. Once in a while, for a good reason, everyone will try to accomplish the tasks and do more for the company. But doing this just for the sake of seeing everyone sweat, IMO, is asking to lose the team.

46 points by scottkduncan 12y ago

zht 12y ago

Please don't put your engineers (or any one else in your company) on death marches.

TL;DR: Founder makes mistake after mistake, blames other people, then finds a famous & rich engineer, suddenly stops making mistakes.

swalsh 12y ago
I was going to join the hate sphere here, but getting Lars, of all people interested in your vision enough to work on it (even if its simply an advisory role). She's clearly has something going for her.
leonatan 12y ago
Isn't this always the case? A company that has at its top someone not familiar with the field of the company is almost always doomed.
hga 12y ago
In all fairness, she also learned a lot of important things, some before that point. Including the very important lesson that if you don't understand the web site your contractors have developed, your potential customers probably won't either. Getting the UI stuff right is just as important as implementing it solidly.

ironchef 12y ago

"I’ve also discovered that nothing is more motivating than a high profile, non-negotiable deadline." Sweet jesus no. If you don't understand what is required do NOT sign your team up for that. That's what causes death marches. Now if you had the team already analyze the opportunity and prototype "the hard parts" then by all means go for it :)

hga 12y ago
I found that bit suspect as well, but I think this guy is more flexible, e.g. look at her discussions on features vs. making things sold. The one deadline she mentioned was implicitly a decision, "we will launch at X event". That eliminates the first general problem with these, they're usually artificial (vs. what I like to refer to as the "pesky" customer challenge). It also allows for the right sort of deadline bargaining, what shall we present then? Vs. the "I think I can do this in 4 weeks" which the worst managers take as a starting negotiating position.
binarysolo 12y ago
The followup text: "Our team performed brilliantly in the month leading up to our launch at the South by Southwest festival; they worked day and night. Now I look for major events that we can all work toward every three months. It’s a great way to keep everyone pointing in the same direction and working fast." Ugh, I'm really not sure this founder learned the right lesson here either. I'm hoping there's an unspoken here that deadlines are being set in a less-arbitrary method grounded with a technical reality check.
- rhizome 12y ago
  "The death march was a complete success!"
hagbardgroup 12y ago
More wisdom from the "Talent Management Secrets of Joseph Kony."
mattm 12y ago
> Within a few months, we had a team of four. Development seemed slow and our live site was littered with bugs. Our team didn’t seem driven; they all finished work each day at 5:30. I remember watching “The Social Network” and admiring the passion and intelligence of the group of young engineers. My team didn’t look like that. I think the real lesson is she hired the wrong team. In all fairness, it's a tough thing to do seeing as she had no technical background to evaluate them. Finishing work at 5:30 is a good thing but slow development and a site "littered with bugs" is something that shouldn't happen, especially with such a small team.

devanti 12y ago

According to LinkedIn the CTO left the company

hga 12y ago
Was this recent? From the path she described I'd expect an event like this sometime earlier.

____a 12y ago

The founder/author is a woman. There appears to be confusion with pronouns in most comments here.

seivan 12y ago

Another person without domain knowledge nor technical skillset to write the software needed. Maybe the person in question does sales. But nothing warrants death marches.

michaelochurch 12y ago

She sounds horrible and I hope she fails. First, there's her focus on hours. Our team didn’t seem driven; they all finished work each day at 5:30. I remember watching “The Social Network” and admiring the passion and intelligence of the group of young engineers. My team didn’t look like that. She wasn't unhappy because of the bugs. She was unhappy because her team didn't look like a star team. (How many stars would put up with her attitude?) What a fucking narcissist. Second and related, there's her use of The Social Network to get a sense of what programmers are supposed to "look" like. That's offensive on so many damn levels I can't keep track of 'em all. The kicker, though, is this: Because I’m a non-techie boss, my engineers know that I don’t understand how much time they will need to complete a task, __a deficiency that I’m sure they sometimes exploit__ (emphasis mine) and that I find incredibly frustrating. What. A. Fucking. Bitch. New York is swarming with non-technical douchebags whose connections get them some seed capital and possibly enough resources and client contacts to get started, and maybe even hire a few talented but clueless engineers who'll throw long hours after a bad idea. Avoid those types. They're horrible. They aren't successes in their own sphere (if they were good in the business game, they'd be in finance or consulting) and they aren't technical either, so you can't learn fuck-all from them. A great business partner, you could learn from. The sad fact, though, is that the rock stars of the business world have zero interest in the VC-funded startup world. Tech 8+ like me can't find our equals in the VC-funded world (Damaso Effect) because Biz 8s are CEOs' proteges and portfolio managers at hedge funds. Not everyone who isn't technical sucks, for sure. However, the business world sends its rejects to manage nerds and nowhere is that more apparent than when one reads articles like this. There are great Harvard and Stanford MBAs, but they don't seem to end up as "business co-founders". They go into private equity, hedge funds, and CEO-protege type roles in business and stay there. Finally, if you're going to found a tech company, learn technology. Learn to code well enough to understand why software engineering is hard (so you don't become that douchebag who thinks he could do the programmers' jobs with a year of training), learn how to deal with 140+ IQ people, learn how to identify useful problems, and learn enough about software culture that you're not using a fucking movie for pointers.

jonmrodriguez 12y ago
> What. A. Fucking. Bitch. Although I agree with your general assessment of Campbell, I think you should change your wording here. It's not right (IMHO) to use gendered insults. That sounds sexist, I think. Much better to just say "What. A. Fucking. Asshole." and leave gender out of it.

invalidOrTaken 12y ago

I am not a "techie," unless you'd like to be the "bookie" or the "accountie," or perhaps "presentie." Who am I kidding: these engineers have earned their place by subordinating to someone like this.

mixologic 12y ago

Wow. That was torturous to read. Then I saw how often that the nytimes lets her spew this awful mentality: http://boss.blogs.nytimes.com/author/rebekah-campbell/ http://boss.blogs.nytimes.com/author/rebekah-campbell/

morgante 12y ago

This reads as how to run a company poorly and how to build a terrible company culture. Some gems: > they all finished work each day at 5:30. I remember watching “The Social Network” and admiring the passion and intelligence of the group of young engineers. Yep, a fictional movie about the founders of a social network is definitely a good benchmark for how much your engineers should be working—not standard professional hours. > We’ve been through three [lead designers]. Yes, blame the designers for ridiculously high turnover, where you have 3 people in the same position within a year. > a deficiency that I’m sure they sometimes exploit Right. Not trusting your technical employees and assuming they are trying to exploit you is a fantastic way to inspire passion and trust. In fairness, since she seems to be a pretty big fan of exploiting others, it's natural that she'd expect the same. > they worked day and night That is not a desirable thing, it should be considered a mistake in planning which must be avoided in the future. All in all, it sounds like she's building a terrible company to work for. Not surprising that she's (according to Crunchbase) only raised $500k.

namenotrequired 12y ago
Great comment, and I agree with all your points, except: > Yes, blame the designers for ridiculously high turnover, where you have 3 people in the same position within a year. She doesn't blame the designers anywhere. The only one she blames even implicitly is herself, in the paragraph that follows on the one you quoted. > Not surprising that she's (according to Crunchbase) only raised $500k. You seem to be implying that raising half a million dollars is a failure, but perhaps you're still using irony there.
- hkarthik 12y ago
  > You seem to be implying that raising half a million dollars is a failure, but perhaps you're still using irony there. I don't know that I can call it a success either. It's like gaining admission into a competitive university. Hard to pull off for many people, but just the first step on a long road to success if everything goes well.

nowarninglabel 12y ago

Wait, she also works for the NY Times as a columnist (according to her LinkedIn profile)? Is this a blog or an ad?

_zen 12y ago
She's an NY Times columnist writing about her start up experiences. She only has one start up, so it's the one she talks about in all her blog posts.
- patrickshampine 12y ago
  She also links to her personal blog on the posse navigation. This girl goes full circle of self promotion..
  - hagbardgroup 12y ago
    Stop thinkfluencer-shaming!!!!

funkyy 12y ago

"To continue reading this article, please log in or register for free." Like... seriously? Its 2014, not 2004...

jpwright 12y ago
Newspapers still gotta make money even in 2014.
- funkyy 12y ago
  Well I thought most of online newspapers make money with advertising and offering corporate services and tools... But hey, what do I know.
  - jpwright 12y ago
    Getting people to sign up for an account is part of their advertising strategy.

notastartup 12y ago

It’s an unwritten law of nature that development always takes longer than predicted. Because I’m a non-techie boss, my engineers know that I don’t understand how much time they will need to complete a task, a deficiency that I’m sure they sometimes exploit and that I find incredibly frustrating. A) Doesn't understand domain, doesn't understand the problem. B) Automatically assumes some weird laws of nature. C) Indulge in paranoia and mistrust to compensate for ignorance. D) Blame others and get frustrated. E) Write an article about it

ldng 12y ago
F) Profit. Literally. Sadly.

watwut 12y ago

"Our team performed brilliantly in the month leading up to our launch at the South by Southwest festival; they worked day and night. Now I look for major events that we can all work toward every three months." Essentially, she is punishing success and hard work. I worked for a company similar in this aspect. Employee got given tight high pressure deadline. When he made it, he was rewarded by another tight high pressure project. And so on until employee either did not made some or left. The company had two types of employees: active newcomers and slow everyone else. It is not exactly the same dysfunction, but kind of similar. I think that she severely underestimates what this kind of treatment do with people.

goshx 12y ago
Came here to make the same comment. Bosses often believe that this move is motivational. Once in a while, for a good reason, everyone will try to accomplish the tasks and do more for the company. But doing this just for the sake of seeing everyone sweat, IMO, is asking to lose the team.