6 ms·

/non-related rant ahead From a perspective of person who is (pro)actively looking for more work, freelancer.com is full of projects along the veins of "write m

by fest 13y ago

/non-related rant ahead From a perspective of person who is (pro)actively looking for more work, freelancer.com is full of projects along the veins of "write me some software". It does not make sense to even bother applying to projects like that, as the time spent writing an application letter exceeds potential income. ~6 years ago I did a fair number of small projects on rentacoder.com - the quality of average project description was much higher (did they do any vetting on incoming projects?). odesk.com on the other hand has a lot more projects whose authors understand a thing or two about how software development works (i.e. reasonable project description among other things).

bwagy 13y ago
Haven't the two merged?
- whoismua 13y ago
  " Freelancer.com, which was founded back in 2009, has acquired several companies over the years — including tech freelance jobs site vWorker/RentACoder and IT marketplace Scriptlance, both in 2012. More recently (this March) it picked up Polish freelance marketplace, Zlecenia.przez.net. " They're buying everything http://techcrunch.com/2014/04/15/freelancer-buys-warrior-forum/ http://techcrunch.com/2014/04/15/freelancer-buys-warrior-for...
- fest 13y ago
  Yeah, they have. That's the other reason I am referring to rentacoder.com in past tense- or at least I think I am ;>
mattbarrie 13y ago
Hi fest I'n the Chief Executive of Freelancer.com. The employers from RAC are all on Freelancer - and they are a lot more active than they were on the old site (which had a use interface from 1995 and was very difficult to use). Regards Matt
- Matsta 13y ago
  Man you can't be a very busy CEO if you keep popping up on forums all the time. Freelancer is terrible for hiring people compared to Odesk, just like Warriorforum is a bunch of "guru's" are trying to sell you ebooks claiming you will make $1352523 a day for "only $79". If the method was that good, why aren't you doing it yourself? This thread is a good laugh about the sale: http://www.blackhatworld.com/blackhat-seo/blackhat-lounge/666566-warrior-forum-sold-freelancer-com.html http://www.blackhatworld.com/blackhat-seo/blackhat-lounge/66...
  - mattbarrie 13y ago
    I am both very busy and also care about user feedback. This is why I participate in the forums. I am also probably the only CEO in my industry to do so, so you have to give me a little bit of credit for that. Yes the BHW thread is quite funny, I even appreciate feedback from 15 year olds.
- octopus 13y ago
  The difference is that RAC protected both the interest of the coder and the buyer. Freelancer seems to be only interested in taking money from both sides. If a buyer cancel his credit card used to pay for a project, the coder is not protected in any way. Freelancer support will simply send the coder to the TOS :). In other words the escrow payment is not guaranteed by Freelancer.
  - mattbarrie 13y ago
    None of the freelancer sites protect against credit card chargebacks.
    - octopus 13y ago
      Try Elance :). The escrow is guaranteed for most projects. Same goes for oDesk if you work by the hour.
      - 13y ago
sergiotapia 13y ago
I make a living off oDesk and the merge had me worried for a bit but so far it's been business as usual.
zerr 13y ago
From the contractor PoV odesk (and maybe others as well) really sucks - rates are rather low. I've seen quite experienced engineers applying with rates in $15-30/hr range. And clients hiring history also shows that they are cheap. From my experience, it is much profitable to stay out from these sites and search/apply to remote jobs independently - you get by order of magnitude higher pay.
- mattbarrie 13y ago
  You need to turn the paradigm around frankly, and hire through these sites rather than bid for work in a big pond.
- sergiotapia 13y ago
  I work as a Rails consultant exclusively on oDesk. How do you guarantee payment when jobs are found independently? Who's to say you aren't scammed out of money you're owed especially if you're not even in the US (or client country)?
  - zerr 13y ago
    You can't. And you shouldn't trust some John Doe and deliver the full solution upfront. I personally look for long-term tasks from "legitimate" companies. After some initial collaboration, you and the company naturally begin to trust each other. E.g. I'm paid hourly, but I don't use any control mechanism for that (like that odesk screensnapper and keylogger, ridiculous...). I just state how many hours I worked for some task and that's it. If I were a web developer, I definitively apply for many remote web dev jobs you can find on HN's Who is Hiring thread. Try next month - and double your odesk rate.
    - sergiotapia 13y ago
      I'll definitely try that, by the way - you don't happen to be looking for a full-stack Rails developer would you? :) Native english, expat from boston. I'm looking for a long term commitment project at the moment (40hrs/week).
bdcravens 13y ago
I've done a little bit of work on Freelancer, and I did some work on RaC years ago - you just have to pick carefully. With the low-quality projects, there's also alot of low-quality developers, who copy and paste the same response to every project (are are often front accounts for development sweat shops). If you're in the same area as the project owner, and can write up a decent proposal (meaning you spent 2 minutes reading the project description and 5 minutes writing why you're best) you can win a large amount of work. There are alot of projects where you can tell the project owner is "just outsourcing it" and thinks they'll get $25,000 of dev for $250. The overall volume is high enough, however, that you can find some quality gigs. What I do have a problem with is nickle-and-diming the site does, especially with regard to their "tests". For instance, the ColdFusion test is probably 8 years old, and pretty embarrassing. (and despite some attitudes to the contrary, the language is quite current) Even "modern" tests like the HTML 5 test seem off with regard to content covered. They almost seems as if they were written using $25 contractors off the site.
- sergiotapia 13y ago
  Why do you even take tests though? I took one when I joined back in 2010, but since then I haven't taken a single test. It's a waste of time.
  - bdcravens 13y ago
    Just because. I did like a little bit of work for $50 (basically just a "rails new" with a theme the project owner purchased), which doesn't move the needle, so thought I'd take a few to supposedly boost my credibility. The fact that they're a waste of time doesn't change the fact that they're pushing a borderline-scammy and low-quality product within their offering.
  - poopsintub 13y ago
    Took a test or two because the other bidders have that to show. I assume they create a few accounts and copy over the answers. Some of the questions were so old and irrelevant I didn't even come close to what the other users scores were, so I couldn't even show it in my profile.

by fest 13y ago

bwagy 13y ago

Haven't the two merged?

whoismua 13y ago
" Freelancer.com, which was founded back in 2009, has acquired several companies over the years — including tech freelance jobs site vWorker/RentACoder and IT marketplace Scriptlance, both in 2012. More recently (this March) it picked up Polish freelance marketplace, Zlecenia.przez.net. " They're buying everything http://techcrunch.com/2014/04/15/freelancer-buys-warrior-forum/ http://techcrunch.com/2014/04/15/freelancer-buys-warrior-for...
fest 13y ago
Yeah, they have. That's the other reason I am referring to rentacoder.com in past tense- or at least I think I am ;>

mattbarrie 13y ago

Hi fest I'n the Chief Executive of Freelancer.com. The employers from RAC are all on Freelancer - and they are a lot more active than they were on the old site (which had a use interface from 1995 and was very difficult to use). Regards Matt

Matsta 13y ago
Man you can't be a very busy CEO if you keep popping up on forums all the time. Freelancer is terrible for hiring people compared to Odesk, just like Warriorforum is a bunch of "guru's" are trying to sell you ebooks claiming you will make $1352523 a day for "only $79". If the method was that good, why aren't you doing it yourself? This thread is a good laugh about the sale: http://www.blackhatworld.com/blackhat-seo/blackhat-lounge/666566-warrior-forum-sold-freelancer-com.html http://www.blackhatworld.com/blackhat-seo/blackhat-lounge/66...
- mattbarrie 13y ago
  I am both very busy and also care about user feedback. This is why I participate in the forums. I am also probably the only CEO in my industry to do so, so you have to give me a little bit of credit for that. Yes the BHW thread is quite funny, I even appreciate feedback from 15 year olds.
octopus 13y ago
The difference is that RAC protected both the interest of the coder and the buyer. Freelancer seems to be only interested in taking money from both sides. If a buyer cancel his credit card used to pay for a project, the coder is not protected in any way. Freelancer support will simply send the coder to the TOS :). In other words the escrow payment is not guaranteed by Freelancer.
- mattbarrie 13y ago
  None of the freelancer sites protect against credit card chargebacks.
  - octopus 13y ago
    Try Elance :). The escrow is guaranteed for most projects. Same goes for oDesk if you work by the hour.
    - 13y ago

sergiotapia 13y ago

I make a living off oDesk and the merge had me worried for a bit but so far it's been business as usual.

zerr 13y ago

From the contractor PoV odesk (and maybe others as well) really sucks - rates are rather low. I've seen quite experienced engineers applying with rates in $15-30/hr range. And clients hiring history also shows that they are cheap. From my experience, it is much profitable to stay out from these sites and search/apply to remote jobs independently - you get by order of magnitude higher pay.

mattbarrie 13y ago
You need to turn the paradigm around frankly, and hire through these sites rather than bid for work in a big pond.
sergiotapia 13y ago
I work as a Rails consultant exclusively on oDesk. How do you guarantee payment when jobs are found independently? Who's to say you aren't scammed out of money you're owed especially if you're not even in the US (or client country)?
- zerr 13y ago
  You can't. And you shouldn't trust some John Doe and deliver the full solution upfront. I personally look for long-term tasks from "legitimate" companies. After some initial collaboration, you and the company naturally begin to trust each other. E.g. I'm paid hourly, but I don't use any control mechanism for that (like that odesk screensnapper and keylogger, ridiculous...). I just state how many hours I worked for some task and that's it. If I were a web developer, I definitively apply for many remote web dev jobs you can find on HN's Who is Hiring thread. Try next month - and double your odesk rate.
  - sergiotapia 13y ago
    I'll definitely try that, by the way - you don't happen to be looking for a full-stack Rails developer would you? :) Native english, expat from boston. I'm looking for a long term commitment project at the moment (40hrs/week).

bdcravens 13y ago

I've done a little bit of work on Freelancer, and I did some work on RaC years ago - you just have to pick carefully. With the low-quality projects, there's also alot of low-quality developers, who copy and paste the same response to every project (are are often front accounts for development sweat shops). If you're in the same area as the project owner, and can write up a decent proposal (meaning you spent 2 minutes reading the project description and 5 minutes writing why you're best) you can win a large amount of work. There are alot of projects where you can tell the project owner is "just outsourcing it" and thinks they'll get $25,000 of dev for $250. The overall volume is high enough, however, that you can find some quality gigs. What I do have a problem with is nickle-and-diming the site does, especially with regard to their "tests". For instance, the ColdFusion test is probably 8 years old, and pretty embarrassing. (and despite some attitudes to the contrary, the language is quite current) Even "modern" tests like the HTML 5 test seem off with regard to content covered. They almost seems as if they were written using $25 contractors off the site.

sergiotapia 13y ago
Why do you even take tests though? I took one when I joined back in 2010, but since then I haven't taken a single test. It's a waste of time.
- bdcravens 13y ago
  Just because. I did like a little bit of work for $50 (basically just a "rails new" with a theme the project owner purchased), which doesn't move the needle, so thought I'd take a few to supposedly boost my credibility. The fact that they're a waste of time doesn't change the fact that they're pushing a borderline-scammy and low-quality product within their offering.
- poopsintub 13y ago
  Took a test or two because the other bidders have that to show. I assume they create a few accounts and copy over the answers. Some of the questions were so old and irrelevant I didn't even come close to what the other users scores were, so I couldn't even show it in my profile.