4 ms·

i find it interesting that there's always such willful disregard for analytical inclusion of los angeles, the 2nd largest city/metro in the US, with a housing m

i find it interesting that there's always such willful disregard for analytical inclusion of los angeles, the 2nd largest city/metro in the US, with a housing market that dwarves all other metro areas but new york. http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/15/business/more-renters-find-30-affordability-ratio-unattainable.html?hp http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/15/business/more-renters-find... los angeles leads the nation in out-of-whack median rent/median income ratios. what does that suggest to me? that it's one of the last of the major US cities with poor and lower-middle class people living in it.

rweba 13y ago
Important quote from that article: “Increasing the supply is not going to increase the number of affordable units; that is a complete and utter fallacy,” said Jaimie Ross, the president of the Florida Housing Coalition. As the article explains, the reason is that builders are going to prefer to build "luxury" units to "affordable" ones. So having a whole bunch of construction is not necessarily going to lead to anything affordable. A construction boom may bring the high end rents down a little bit, but they'll still be out of reach of most people.
- taiki 13y ago
  This is why the Free Market just doesn't fucking work. The "invisible hand" just doesn't care about marginal actors. Who cares if there's people being displaced? Free markets!@#*(_!@)# jesus I need a drink
  - mmorett 13y ago
    And replace the free market with what? Communism? Where people like you try to show your brilliance at dictating how things "should be"? GTFO.
    - deleted 13y ago
      [deleted]
    - taiki 13y ago
      Reasonably regulated market where people are free to pursue economic opportunities but with oversight that protects the underclass and underprivileged?
      - mmorett 13y ago
        We have a reasonably regulated market. What we don't have is a system where people get to live where they want to live without regards to what they can afford. SF renters need to back up the U-Haul truck and find new places to live where they can afford it. They are not "entitled" to live in SF simply because they want to.
        taiki 13y ago
        The problem is, you're asking people who've lived in a place for generations just to up and move because yuppies want easier access to bars and fancy coffee shops. Surely you can understand why this isn't so simple, I hope. People who have roots are getting uprooted because they declined or couldn't get in on the sweet tech boom dollars. A lot of the locals are pissed. I live in Brooklyn, and I live in a part of Brooklyn that really, if they figured out I worked in Tech, I wouldn't be shocked if they showed up with torches and pitchforks as a warning to others.
        mmorett 13y ago
        I understand the problem. I just don't give it any validity. The renters think their wishes and desires to live in a specific area are more important than other people who wish to live in that same area. It comes across as immature and whining. It's not just renting. It's income as well. There are lots of folks whining about how others make more money and how that "isn't fair". It's a broad theme of people complaining and having a sense of entitlement.
        taiki 13y ago
        you don't think it's unfair that a landlord can upend your life and make it complete hell just so they can get tenants who are willing to pay more? This isn't about moving, this is about completely changing lives. How to get to work, who's in the neighborhood, what's the neighborhood flavor like... it's more than just "living in a specific area" it's about living life. Income inequality is another issue all together. No, it's not fair that a fast food joint has the guys who flip burgers and run the cash register do all the work and get literally the least amount of money the business can legally give them. And yes, they could just go look for other jobs... if there were any. In a lot of places, there just isn't other work. For others, their particular field may have been decimated. A friend of mine was a bar certified lawyer in corporate finance. ... when he graduated in 2008. Yeah. life isn't fair, and maybe part of it is roughing it. But another part of it is also recognizing that the system has been inadvertently rigged towards the relatively wealthy and hyper wealthy. There's reasons why there are protests in the streets of the Bay Area, and tone deaf responses like this are one of them.
- mapt 13y ago
  An actually affordable unit may be one which was constructed to appeal, marketting-wise, to someone making $100,000/year, and instead is sold for a somewhat lower profit to someone making $60,000/year, because there are fewer $100k people than there are $100k units. "luxury" and "affordable" are in quotes for a reason: the difference is language, veneer, and floor tile, which are trivial expenses relative to the location-scarcity of the land & permits. A $3,500/month rental unit in SF might sell for $70,000 in suburban Cleveland with an identical interior.
lmm 13y ago
LA is full of people working low-end jobs (e.g. waiting tables) while they try and break into the movie business. So I'd expect a pretty weird income distribution where the median doesn't necessarily reflect everything that's going on.
- beachstartup 13y ago
  this is not an original observation, and nor is it inaccurate, but it doesn't account for the other 90% of people who live in los angeles.

rweba 13y ago

Important quote from that article: “Increasing the supply is not going to increase the number of affordable units; that is a complete and utter fallacy,” said Jaimie Ross, the president of the Florida Housing Coalition. As the article explains, the reason is that builders are going to prefer to build "luxury" units to "affordable" ones. So having a whole bunch of construction is not necessarily going to lead to anything affordable. A construction boom may bring the high end rents down a little bit, but they'll still be out of reach of most people.

taiki 13y ago
This is why the Free Market just doesn't fucking work. The "invisible hand" just doesn't care about marginal actors. Who cares if there's people being displaced? Free markets!@#*(_!@)# jesus I need a drink
- mmorett 13y ago
  And replace the free market with what? Communism? Where people like you try to show your brilliance at dictating how things "should be"? GTFO.
  - deleted 13y ago
    [deleted]
  - taiki 13y ago
    Reasonably regulated market where people are free to pursue economic opportunities but with oversight that protects the underclass and underprivileged?
    - mmorett 13y ago
      We have a reasonably regulated market. What we don't have is a system where people get to live where they want to live without regards to what they can afford. SF renters need to back up the U-Haul truck and find new places to live where they can afford it. They are not "entitled" to live in SF simply because they want to.
      - taiki 13y ago
        The problem is, you're asking people who've lived in a place for generations just to up and move because yuppies want easier access to bars and fancy coffee shops. Surely you can understand why this isn't so simple, I hope. People who have roots are getting uprooted because they declined or couldn't get in on the sweet tech boom dollars. A lot of the locals are pissed. I live in Brooklyn, and I live in a part of Brooklyn that really, if they figured out I worked in Tech, I wouldn't be shocked if they showed up with torches and pitchforks as a warning to others.
        mmorett 13y ago
        I understand the problem. I just don't give it any validity. The renters think their wishes and desires to live in a specific area are more important than other people who wish to live in that same area. It comes across as immature and whining. It's not just renting. It's income as well. There are lots of folks whining about how others make more money and how that "isn't fair". It's a broad theme of people complaining and having a sense of entitlement.
        taiki 13y ago
        you don't think it's unfair that a landlord can upend your life and make it complete hell just so they can get tenants who are willing to pay more? This isn't about moving, this is about completely changing lives. How to get to work, who's in the neighborhood, what's the neighborhood flavor like... it's more than just "living in a specific area" it's about living life. Income inequality is another issue all together. No, it's not fair that a fast food joint has the guys who flip burgers and run the cash register do all the work and get literally the least amount of money the business can legally give them. And yes, they could just go look for other jobs... if there were any. In a lot of places, there just isn't other work. For others, their particular field may have been decimated. A friend of mine was a bar certified lawyer in corporate finance. ... when he graduated in 2008. Yeah. life isn't fair, and maybe part of it is roughing it. But another part of it is also recognizing that the system has been inadvertently rigged towards the relatively wealthy and hyper wealthy. There's reasons why there are protests in the streets of the Bay Area, and tone deaf responses like this are one of them.
mapt 13y ago
An actually affordable unit may be one which was constructed to appeal, marketting-wise, to someone making $100,000/year, and instead is sold for a somewhat lower profit to someone making $60,000/year, because there are fewer $100k people than there are $100k units. "luxury" and "affordable" are in quotes for a reason: the difference is language, veneer, and floor tile, which are trivial expenses relative to the location-scarcity of the land & permits. A $3,500/month rental unit in SF might sell for $70,000 in suburban Cleveland with an identical interior.

lmm 13y ago

LA is full of people working low-end jobs (e.g. waiting tables) while they try and break into the movie business. So I'd expect a pretty weird income distribution where the median doesn't necessarily reflect everything that's going on.

beachstartup 13y ago
this is not an original observation, and nor is it inaccurate, but it doesn't account for the other 90% of people who live in los angeles.