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People who are going to comment on this blog post need to realize how disturbing this episode has been for Mozillians. We are talking about a small group of pe

by jvehent 13y ago

People who are going to comment on this blog post need to realize how disturbing this episode has been for Mozillians. We are talking about a small group of people, a couple thousands at best, that work with limited resources to keep the web open for everybody. When this tidal wave hit Mozillians, the base contributors and employees who spend most of their days in code and features, we lost focus of our work, and stepped into a world of politics that most of us dislike, and are uncomfortable to navigate. I believe Chris Beard is a true Mozillian, as is Brendan Eich. And I am glad that we can refocus on our mission, and move forward. I just wish people can put their differences aside, accept each other's beliefs, and share code!

jvehent 13y ago
And just to add to this :) http://people.mozilla.org/~smartell/cbeard/cbeard-illustration.png http://people.mozilla.org/~smartell/cbeard/cbeard-illustrati...
bowlofpetunias 13y ago
Please, please, stop calling this "politics" or suggesting this is about (in)tolerance by others. It's completely dismissive of the very real objections people had concerning the appointment of Eich, especially those of us who understand the importance of Mozilla for the open web and weren't just out for good old lynching.
- Yoric 13y ago
  The problem is not people who were able to argue against Brendan Eich. I am sure that there was space for a sane debate on the topic. The problem was the bullies who were screaming along. (I'm not going to call this a lynching, because in my mind, that's basically a Godwin point).
  - wonderzombie 13y ago
    It's silly to call this bullying. Yes, people shouldn't send death threats-- nobody should receive them regardless, and I think this is a larger problem with the Internet in general. But a collective of people exercising their free speech to disagree with somebody's views and to vote with their feet isn't bullying. It's not bullying just because someone's feelings are hurt when a shit-ton of people find said person's views abhorrent.
ender7 13y ago
"Accepting each other's beliefs" seems like a simple solution, but it has a very problematic result. To LGBT Mozillians, this becomes "you must respect beliefs that say that you are a second-class citizen." No one should feel like they must respect beliefs that devalue their person.
- Mikeb85 13y ago
  Why not? Religious people get ridiculed all the time, people drink and eat pork around Muslims, and yet somehow they fit in fine. And being a member of a religion isn't always a choice, being that usually you're born into it and your name identifies you as such.
  - quasque 13y ago
    By implication, are you saying that being homophobic is not a choice?
    - dragonwriter 13y ago
      Disliking things generally isn't a direct choice, though it may be possible to make deliberate choices that will change your tastes over time. Particular expressions of dislike may be choices, but the underlying feeling is not.
    - Mikeb85 13y ago
      I'm saying that if you're named Mohammed people will make certain assumptions about your beliefs your whole life, and will treat you differently.
      - quasque 13y ago
        Well, some people may do that.
    - sdegutis 13y ago
      Oh look. Another debate about religion and politics on the internet. Because the last one didn't change everyone's minds, but this time will be different. Better join in. You're right and we're wrong!! (Am I doing it right?)
davidgerard 13y ago
As a Mozillan, how did you think your users - people outside Mozilla - would feel when Mitchell stressed Eich would restrict application of his views to people outside Mozilla? It was your users who were outraged.
Trufa 13y ago
> I just wish people can put their differences aside, accept each other's beliefs. This sounds very nice and I agree with the sentiment, but has a big flaw in the argumentation. When you consider those beliefs directly contradict the freedom of other human beings, should you not act upon it? Switch the LGBT issue for race and you'll know what I mean.
- sbuk 13y ago
  > Switch the LGBT issue for race and you'll know what I mean. Wow.

by jvehent 13y ago

jvehent 13y ago

And just to add to this :) http://people.mozilla.org/~smartell/cbeard/cbeard-illustration.png http://people.mozilla.org/~smartell/cbeard/cbeard-illustrati...

bowlofpetunias 13y ago

Please, please, stop calling this "politics" or suggesting this is about (in)tolerance by others. It's completely dismissive of the very real objections people had concerning the appointment of Eich, especially those of us who understand the importance of Mozilla for the open web and weren't just out for good old lynching.

Yoric 13y ago
The problem is not people who were able to argue against Brendan Eich. I am sure that there was space for a sane debate on the topic. The problem was the bullies who were screaming along. (I'm not going to call this a lynching, because in my mind, that's basically a Godwin point).
- wonderzombie 13y ago
  It's silly to call this bullying. Yes, people shouldn't send death threats-- nobody should receive them regardless, and I think this is a larger problem with the Internet in general. But a collective of people exercising their free speech to disagree with somebody's views and to vote with their feet isn't bullying. It's not bullying just because someone's feelings are hurt when a shit-ton of people find said person's views abhorrent.

ender7 13y ago

"Accepting each other's beliefs" seems like a simple solution, but it has a very problematic result. To LGBT Mozillians, this becomes "you must respect beliefs that say that you are a second-class citizen." No one should feel like they must respect beliefs that devalue their person.

Mikeb85 13y ago
Why not? Religious people get ridiculed all the time, people drink and eat pork around Muslims, and yet somehow they fit in fine. And being a member of a religion isn't always a choice, being that usually you're born into it and your name identifies you as such.
- quasque 13y ago
  By implication, are you saying that being homophobic is not a choice?
  - dragonwriter 13y ago
    Disliking things generally isn't a direct choice, though it may be possible to make deliberate choices that will change your tastes over time. Particular expressions of dislike may be choices, but the underlying feeling is not.
  - Mikeb85 13y ago
    I'm saying that if you're named Mohammed people will make certain assumptions about your beliefs your whole life, and will treat you differently.
    - quasque 13y ago
      Well, some people may do that.
  - sdegutis 13y ago
    Oh look. Another debate about religion and politics on the internet. Because the last one didn't change everyone's minds, but this time will be different. Better join in. You're right and we're wrong!! (Am I doing it right?)

davidgerard 13y ago

As a Mozillan, how did you think your users - people outside Mozilla - would feel when Mitchell stressed Eich would restrict application of his views to people outside Mozilla? It was your users who were outraged.

Trufa 13y ago

> I just wish people can put their differences aside, accept each other's beliefs. This sounds very nice and I agree with the sentiment, but has a big flaw in the argumentation. When you consider those beliefs directly contradict the freedom of other human beings, should you not act upon it? Switch the LGBT issue for race and you'll know what I mean.

sbuk 13y ago
> Switch the LGBT issue for race and you'll know what I mean. Wow.