7 ms·

"the moment you attack one of the best organizations" Nobody attacked Mozilla. You're totally off base.

by bkor 13y ago

i80and 13y ago
Some people fell just one step shy of demanding that others boycott Firefox. I'd call that an attack on Mozilla.
- weaksauce 13y ago
  there actually were websites that called for a boycott of firefox.
- bowlofpetunias 13y ago
  Some people would call attacking the decision of the Mozilla leadership supporting Mozilla. I would not have given a f* about Eich if I didn't care about Mozilla.
M2Ys4U 13y ago
Plenty of people did attack Mozilla, though, and it was quite disheartening to watch.
- bkor 13y ago
  No, they strongly disliked Brendan Eich to be a CEO of Mozilla. Their dislike is with the CEO, not the company. But because of the strong dislike, they cannot support the company. Boycotting a company because of not wanting the CEO is not an attack on the company. It is expressing that you really don't like / disagree / hate / whatever the company. I strongly dislike Brendan Eich was made a CEO. I don't want to support Mozilla in any way and I would've been very critical about Mozilla. Knowing that he supported prop 8 and then knowingly making him a CEO is not the company / organization I supported (fyi: I've triaged 600+ bugs, used to be a Bugzilla developer, have git.mozilla.org commit access, etc).
carlio 13y ago
OKCupid did - they told people to ditch Firefox - http://news.yahoo.com/okcupid-urges-boycott-mozilla-cites-ceos-gay-marriage-011147779--sector.html http://news.yahoo.com/okcupid-urges-boycott-mozilla-cites-ce...
- msbarnett 13y ago
  So what's the argument here, exactly? When Brandon Eich exercises his freedom of speech to donate money to a cause that was harmful to many mozillans, that's somehow NOT an attack on non-heteronormative Californians, BUT when OkCupid exercises their freedom of speech to encourage use a different webbrowser, that IS an attack on Brandon Eich? Maybe you could draw the class a map of what kinds of speech are OK and what kinds of speech are unfair attacks.
  - carlio 13y ago
    bkor said "Nobody attacked Mozilla." - I was merely providing a counter example.
    - msbarnett 13y ago
      So would you then agree that Brandon Eich attacked LGBT mozillans, and Californians in general?
      - carlio 13y ago
        I presented a fact with no opinion attached, I have no desire to join the debate. I'm not sure why you've chosen my post to reply to, there are plenty of others who post actual opinions you can discuss.
        msbarnett 13y ago
        You asserted that an exercise of free speech on OkCupid's part was "an attack". That's not a fact -- it's a subjective opinion about a fact ("OkCupid asked visitors to its site to use a different browser" being the relevant fact). I don't know that I particularly agree with your opinion, or at least, I know I don't agree that it was less of an attack than Brandon Eich's actions. So I was attempting to understand your response. It's rather odd to complain that posting your opinion in public provoked a response. If you're not interested in having a conversation, I'd suggest that the wisest course of action is not to post.
6cxs2hd6 13y ago
People have strong feelings about this on all sides (and I think there are more than two sides). However hopefully everyone on that whole spectrum will agree -- and never forget -- how OkCupid and Sam Yagan decided to step into it and act like opportunistic hypocrites. And hopefully everyone on that spectrum will give their support to Mozilla now, because it makes the internet a better place for all of us.
bzbarsky 13y ago
Death threats against Mozilla employees and contributors don't count as attacks on Mozilla in your book?
Yoric 13y ago
I work at Mozilla and, really, it looks very much like an attack. Several calls to boycotts, several petitions asking for the resignation of our CEO, demonstrations, insults, death threats, ... Note that the situation is pretty symmetric: we now get from the conservatives what we got from the liberals two weeks ago.
- hackuser 13y ago
  I'm sure that can't feel good. Remember that you have over 500 million users and many more who know you. I suspect if you divide the number of supporters of boycotts, petitions, etc. by 500,000,000, you will get a very tiny number.
  - Yoric 13y ago
    Thanks for the support :)
    - sentenza 13y ago
      Also, Firefox is still number one here in Germany, where this issue was a non-story. Over here and in many other places, person and office are considered independent unless the personal opinions are directly pertinent to the office in question. After all, if we (average Germans) applied our own present-day human rights views in the same way, we'd be boycotting organizations with CEOs that are homophobes, death penalty proponents, religious extremists, pro-lifers and so forth.

"the moment you attack one of the best organizations" Nobody attacked Mozilla. You're totally off base.

by bkor 13y ago

"the moment you attack one of the best organizations" Nobody attacked Mozilla. You're totally off base.

i80and 13y ago

Some people fell just one step shy of demanding that others boycott Firefox. I'd call that an attack on Mozilla.

weaksauce 13y ago
there actually were websites that called for a boycott of firefox.
bowlofpetunias 13y ago
Some people would call attacking the decision of the Mozilla leadership supporting Mozilla. I would not have given a f* about Eich if I didn't care about Mozilla.

M2Ys4U 13y ago

Plenty of people did attack Mozilla, though, and it was quite disheartening to watch.

bkor 13y ago
No, they strongly disliked Brendan Eich to be a CEO of Mozilla. Their dislike is with the CEO, not the company. But because of the strong dislike, they cannot support the company. Boycotting a company because of not wanting the CEO is not an attack on the company. It is expressing that you really don't like / disagree / hate / whatever the company. I strongly dislike Brendan Eich was made a CEO. I don't want to support Mozilla in any way and I would've been very critical about Mozilla. Knowing that he supported prop 8 and then knowingly making him a CEO is not the company / organization I supported (fyi: I've triaged 600+ bugs, used to be a Bugzilla developer, have git.mozilla.org commit access, etc).

carlio 13y ago

OKCupid did - they told people to ditch Firefox - http://news.yahoo.com/okcupid-urges-boycott-mozilla-cites-ceos-gay-marriage-011147779--sector.html http://news.yahoo.com/okcupid-urges-boycott-mozilla-cites-ce...

msbarnett 13y ago
So what's the argument here, exactly? When Brandon Eich exercises his freedom of speech to donate money to a cause that was harmful to many mozillans, that's somehow NOT an attack on non-heteronormative Californians, BUT when OkCupid exercises their freedom of speech to encourage use a different webbrowser, that IS an attack on Brandon Eich? Maybe you could draw the class a map of what kinds of speech are OK and what kinds of speech are unfair attacks.
- carlio 13y ago
  bkor said "Nobody attacked Mozilla." - I was merely providing a counter example.
  - msbarnett 13y ago
    So would you then agree that Brandon Eich attacked LGBT mozillans, and Californians in general?
    - carlio 13y ago
      I presented a fact with no opinion attached, I have no desire to join the debate. I'm not sure why you've chosen my post to reply to, there are plenty of others who post actual opinions you can discuss.
      - msbarnett 13y ago
        You asserted that an exercise of free speech on OkCupid's part was "an attack". That's not a fact -- it's a subjective opinion about a fact ("OkCupid asked visitors to its site to use a different browser" being the relevant fact). I don't know that I particularly agree with your opinion, or at least, I know I don't agree that it was less of an attack than Brandon Eich's actions. So I was attempting to understand your response. It's rather odd to complain that posting your opinion in public provoked a response. If you're not interested in having a conversation, I'd suggest that the wisest course of action is not to post.

6cxs2hd6 13y ago

People have strong feelings about this on all sides (and I think there are more than two sides). However hopefully everyone on that whole spectrum will agree -- and never forget -- how OkCupid and Sam Yagan decided to step into it and act like opportunistic hypocrites. And hopefully everyone on that spectrum will give their support to Mozilla now, because it makes the internet a better place for all of us.

bzbarsky 13y ago

Death threats against Mozilla employees and contributors don't count as attacks on Mozilla in your book?

Yoric 13y ago

I work at Mozilla and, really, it looks very much like an attack. Several calls to boycotts, several petitions asking for the resignation of our CEO, demonstrations, insults, death threats, ... Note that the situation is pretty symmetric: we now get from the conservatives what we got from the liberals two weeks ago.

hackuser 13y ago
I'm sure that can't feel good. Remember that you have over 500 million users and many more who know you. I suspect if you divide the number of supporters of boycotts, petitions, etc. by 500,000,000, you will get a very tiny number.
- Yoric 13y ago
  Thanks for the support :)
  - sentenza 13y ago
    Also, Firefox is still number one here in Germany, where this issue was a non-story. Over here and in many other places, person and office are considered independent unless the personal opinions are directly pertinent to the office in question. After all, if we (average Germans) applied our own present-day human rights views in the same way, we'd be boycotting organizations with CEOs that are homophobes, death penalty proponents, religious extremists, pro-lifers and so forth.