13 ms·

The Netflix Zen Master

37 points by jdoliner 17y ago

qeorge 17y ago
This is the kind of guy I hope to be in my middle age. Given his antics probably won't actually result in a quicker turnaround, but I love the idea of sending the DVDs back on the same truck they came on just for the hell of it. I also like the idea of the contest the author proposes, although I'm sure Netflix wouldn't want to publicly encourage piracy. Great article, made me smile.
- bprater 17y ago
  Absolutely. There is a real beauty in quirkiness.
imgabe 17y ago
I think Netflix wants you to be inefficient though. The longer you keep the movies, the less postage they have to pay mailing them back and forth each month, making your account that much more profitable.
- jdoliner 17y ago
  Hmm, I don't think that's necessarily true. For new releases Netflix often doesn't have enough to go around and has to make people wait. I bet efficiency there is appreciated.
  - encoderer 17y ago
    Netflix notoriously throttles heavy users. Their largest expense is postage. I'm sure their calculus is more complex, but if they had to pick an extreme, i'd wager that they'd pick the guy who has had the same 3 discs sitting on his table for the last month.
    - jrockway 17y ago
      That would be me. For some reason, I would rather watch Simpsons reruns than some movie I've never seen. (I returned one disk today that has been on my coffee table for two months. I just couldn't get excited enough to watch the movie, and I was tired of looking at the disk.)
  - DavidHull 17y ago
    Also, Netflix doesn't have to make a customer wait, they can just send a movie from farther down in the customer's queue.
- DavidHull 17y ago
  Yes, I agree, the premise that Netflix wants you to return the DVDs as quickly as possible so that they can send it to someone else is wrong. At any given time, you're going to have N DVDs out, and Netflix doesn't have any reason to particularly care whether they're the same N DVDs each day or N different DVDs. When I return two DVDs to Netflix on the same day, I usually send them in one envelope in the hopes that the mailing costs will be slightly lower. (I figure that if their costs are lower that helps keep the subscription price down.) I've wondered why Netflix doesn't try to combine the discs that they send, but perhaps the cost savings aren't enough to be worth the extra handling that would be required on their end.
  - encoderer 17y ago
    Interesting... I noticed a couple years ago that if I put the DVD in the return envelope backwards (and the bar code couldn't be seen thru the little window) it took longer to mark those movies as returned (I'd get the email at 3, 4, 5 PM instead of 7 or 8 AM) and it often led to an extra day of waiting. I now take care to always have them in the right. You haven't noticed any extra delay by doubling them up?
    - DannoHung 17y ago
      Did you read the article about the Netflix processing center? There isn't any automation on the envelope side, rather there are teams of people opening them up and pulling the discs and the sleeves. I think the barcode window is entirely for outgoing routing.
      - encoderer 17y ago
        I did read the article, but I didn't see where it said that there was no automation on the receiving end. Maybe I missed it, it was a long article. When I noticed this for myself, 2007 sometime, I had a common problem where every Nth disc would take an extra day to be received, and that would really throw off my pattern, which mostly was just to have a couple movies for the weekend. So soon hypothesized that it'd happen on days the barcode was not visible. So to test, I put 1 of them wrong intentionally, mailed all 3 at the same time, and the 1 that was wrong did indeed take an extra day to be marked as returned. So I didn't have any real facts, just an observation that seemed plausible to me.
- Ben65 17y ago
  True, but the contest idea builds a community and hopefully increases the number of subscribers. It certainly builds loyalty with existing subscribers. I think it's a good idea.
shizcakes 17y ago
Is this not a form of piracy?
- sp332 17y ago
  I don't see why. He's not distributing them, he's not getting any money, and he's not showing them in public. It is illegal in the US, both because it "circumvents" the copy protection, and because he's making a copy of a movie he doesn't own. So it's copyright infringement, but not piracy.
- bprater 17y ago
  It's obvious he's doing this as a hobby. Legal? I'm sure it's on the threshold. This is where an inflexible legal system shows it's age. He isn't hurting anybody, he's obviously having a great time. Netflix is making money/building loyalty from him. (They are building loyalty with all of us when we read this story.) The movie companies aren't suffering. It's a triple win. But in a court of law, it's likely that he would be slapped.
raghus 17y ago
I wonder what his stats and graphs will look like on the site I started: http://feedfliks.com http://feedfliks.com
- qeorge 17y ago
  You actually get a plug in the article itself. Cool site by the way. IIRC, it was made in one of those quick-sprint exercises, no?
  - raghus 17y ago
    No, not exactly quick-sprint :-)
    - qeorge 17y ago
      My apologies, I had this confused with Qflip.net, from the Rails Rumble 08 competition, not even close to the same idea. I guess my memory is not as sharp as I would hope.
- jdoliner 17y ago
  Well since you asked, let's see if can't get this for you :). Also I found your site through Netflix itself which I take to mean that they don't wholly disapprove of such a venture. Did you have to get your app concept cleared with them at all?
  - raghus 17y ago
    Not at all. As far as I can tell, Netflix is very supportive of FeedFliks. They did want me to change the name from FeedFlix to FeedFliks. And yeah - if you can get the ZenMaster to post what his stats look like on FeedFliks, that would be great too!
- staunch 17y ago
  If I decide to quit FeedFliks can I make it delete all my data?
absconditus 17y ago
Netflix uses an algorithm to slow down people like this. http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/s_422313.html http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/s_422313.html
- DannoHung 17y ago
  The only thing about that is that I really don't see the value of Netflix in getting new movies fast, I personally like the back catalog aspect. Like, I've been going through all the Miyazaki films, and there's a lot of independent movies, and cornball sci-fi movies. Heck, the watch instantly feature is awesome for that too. I love Netflix.

37 points by jdoliner 17y ago

This is the kind of guy I hope to be in my middle age. Given his antics probably won't actually result in a quicker turnaround, but I love the idea of sending the DVDs back on the same truck they came on just for the hell of it. I also like the idea of the contest the author proposes, although I'm sure Netflix wouldn't want to publicly encourage piracy. Great article, made me smile.

bprater 17y ago
Absolutely. There is a real beauty in quirkiness.

imgabe 17y ago

I think Netflix wants you to be inefficient though. The longer you keep the movies, the less postage they have to pay mailing them back and forth each month, making your account that much more profitable.

jdoliner 17y ago
Hmm, I don't think that's necessarily true. For new releases Netflix often doesn't have enough to go around and has to make people wait. I bet efficiency there is appreciated.
- encoderer 17y ago
  Netflix notoriously throttles heavy users. Their largest expense is postage. I'm sure their calculus is more complex, but if they had to pick an extreme, i'd wager that they'd pick the guy who has had the same 3 discs sitting on his table for the last month.
  - jrockway 17y ago
    That would be me. For some reason, I would rather watch Simpsons reruns than some movie I've never seen. (I returned one disk today that has been on my coffee table for two months. I just couldn't get excited enough to watch the movie, and I was tired of looking at the disk.)
- DavidHull 17y ago
  Also, Netflix doesn't have to make a customer wait, they can just send a movie from farther down in the customer's queue.
DavidHull 17y ago
Yes, I agree, the premise that Netflix wants you to return the DVDs as quickly as possible so that they can send it to someone else is wrong. At any given time, you're going to have N DVDs out, and Netflix doesn't have any reason to particularly care whether they're the same N DVDs each day or N different DVDs. When I return two DVDs to Netflix on the same day, I usually send them in one envelope in the hopes that the mailing costs will be slightly lower. (I figure that if their costs are lower that helps keep the subscription price down.) I've wondered why Netflix doesn't try to combine the discs that they send, but perhaps the cost savings aren't enough to be worth the extra handling that would be required on their end.
- encoderer 17y ago
  Interesting... I noticed a couple years ago that if I put the DVD in the return envelope backwards (and the bar code couldn't be seen thru the little window) it took longer to mark those movies as returned (I'd get the email at 3, 4, 5 PM instead of 7 or 8 AM) and it often led to an extra day of waiting. I now take care to always have them in the right. You haven't noticed any extra delay by doubling them up?
  - DannoHung 17y ago
    Did you read the article about the Netflix processing center? There isn't any automation on the envelope side, rather there are teams of people opening them up and pulling the discs and the sleeves. I think the barcode window is entirely for outgoing routing.
    - encoderer 17y ago
      I did read the article, but I didn't see where it said that there was no automation on the receiving end. Maybe I missed it, it was a long article. When I noticed this for myself, 2007 sometime, I had a common problem where every Nth disc would take an extra day to be received, and that would really throw off my pattern, which mostly was just to have a couple movies for the weekend. So soon hypothesized that it'd happen on days the barcode was not visible. So to test, I put 1 of them wrong intentionally, mailed all 3 at the same time, and the 1 that was wrong did indeed take an extra day to be marked as returned. So I didn't have any real facts, just an observation that seemed plausible to me.
Ben65 17y ago
True, but the contest idea builds a community and hopefully increases the number of subscribers. It certainly builds loyalty with existing subscribers. I think it's a good idea.

shizcakes 17y ago

Is this not a form of piracy?

sp332 17y ago
I don't see why. He's not distributing them, he's not getting any money, and he's not showing them in public. It is illegal in the US, both because it "circumvents" the copy protection, and because he's making a copy of a movie he doesn't own. So it's copyright infringement, but not piracy.
bprater 17y ago
It's obvious he's doing this as a hobby. Legal? I'm sure it's on the threshold. This is where an inflexible legal system shows it's age. He isn't hurting anybody, he's obviously having a great time. Netflix is making money/building loyalty from him. (They are building loyalty with all of us when we read this story.) The movie companies aren't suffering. It's a triple win. But in a court of law, it's likely that he would be slapped.

raghus 17y ago

I wonder what his stats and graphs will look like on the site I started: http://feedfliks.com http://feedfliks.com

qeorge 17y ago
You actually get a plug in the article itself. Cool site by the way. IIRC, it was made in one of those quick-sprint exercises, no?
- raghus 17y ago
  No, not exactly quick-sprint :-)
  - qeorge 17y ago
    My apologies, I had this confused with Qflip.net, from the Rails Rumble 08 competition, not even close to the same idea. I guess my memory is not as sharp as I would hope.
jdoliner 17y ago
Well since you asked, let's see if can't get this for you :). Also I found your site through Netflix itself which I take to mean that they don't wholly disapprove of such a venture. Did you have to get your app concept cleared with them at all?
- raghus 17y ago
  Not at all. As far as I can tell, Netflix is very supportive of FeedFliks. They did want me to change the name from FeedFlix to FeedFliks. And yeah - if you can get the ZenMaster to post what his stats look like on FeedFliks, that would be great too!
staunch 17y ago
If I decide to quit FeedFliks can I make it delete all my data?

absconditus 17y ago

Netflix uses an algorithm to slow down people like this. http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/s_422313.html http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/s_422313.html

DannoHung 17y ago
The only thing about that is that I really don't see the value of Netflix in getting new movies fast, I personally like the back catalog aspect. Like, I've been going through all the Miyazaki films, and there's a lot of independent movies, and cornball sci-fi movies. Heck, the watch instantly feature is awesome for that too. I love Netflix.