4 ms·

As much as I admire Elon and Tesla, Consumer Reports rated Audi clean diesel at a cheaper cost per mile than Tesla. So the comparison I'd really like to see is

As much as I admire Elon and Tesla, Consumer Reports rated Audi clean diesel at a cheaper cost per mile than Tesla. So the comparison I'd really like to see is Tesla against the Audis.

rsync 13y ago
What is the value of not participating in a retrograde technological movement ? What is the value of not having a car that looks brand new and modern with your eyes, and sounds like a chitty-chitty-bang-bang set piece with your ears ? I just got back from Zurich where I saw brand new MY 2014 A6 and A8 cars driving around ... with TDI ... and they sounded like props from an old railroad farce. (full disclosure - I own a gasoline powered A8 currently, so there's no hating going on here ... except against diesel)
- not_that_noob 13y ago
  In the early days of the automobile, both electric and non-electric propulsion systems were actively researched and developed - see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_electric_vehicle http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_electric_vehicle So Tesla stands as the most recent and the coolest of a long line of electric cars. Just as they have refined the concept of an electric automobile, the latest diesel technology that Audi is incorporating is a refined clean-buring diesel technology without the baggage of the old smokers. So I'm not sure which retrograde technological movement you have in mind.
dmishe 13y ago
What exactly did they measure for "cost per mile"? I have an audi tdi and it's a great machine for trips, but tesla is much more expensive up front :)
not_that_noob 13y ago
My bad - I misremembered - this is the quote from CR: "When it comes to efficiency, the Tesla is a runaway. The A7 gets an impressive 28 mpg overall, but the Model S delivers the equivalent of 84 mpg. That translates into only 4.4 cents per mile for the Tesla (based on an electricity rate of 11 cents per kilowatt- hour) vs. 14.3 cents for the Audi (based on diesel costing $4.00 per gallon)." As you were. EDIT: Ok I now remember why I misremembered. The delta in operating cost is about 10 cents/mile. The delta in price is $18,755 (ignoring rebates, credits, etc.). So you would have to drive 187,550 miles for the Tesla to come out ahead. In other words, the TDI A7 is at a similar TCO to the Tesla, but with extended range and quick fueling.
- TylerE 13y ago
  And then you can look at something like the BMW 328d that is "only" $42k and gets 43mpg, or a VW Golf TDI (Disclaimer: I own one) for around $27k and 40-45mpg in the real world. FWIW, my lifetime actual fuel costs have $0.110/mi over almost 40,000 miles, and that's based on basiclly worst possible variables... auto transmission instead of a stick, hot climate (lots of A/C usage, which is about a 2-5mpg ding), and lots of city driving.

As much as I admire Elon and Tesla, Consumer Reports rated Audi clean diesel at a cheaper cost per mile than Tesla. So the comparison I'd really like to see is Tesla against the Audis.

rsync 13y ago

What is the value of not participating in a retrograde technological movement ? What is the value of not having a car that looks brand new and modern with your eyes, and sounds like a chitty-chitty-bang-bang set piece with your ears ? I just got back from Zurich where I saw brand new MY 2014 A6 and A8 cars driving around ... with TDI ... and they sounded like props from an old railroad farce. (full disclosure - I own a gasoline powered A8 currently, so there's no hating going on here ... except against diesel)

not_that_noob 13y ago
In the early days of the automobile, both electric and non-electric propulsion systems were actively researched and developed - see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_electric_vehicle http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_electric_vehicle So Tesla stands as the most recent and the coolest of a long line of electric cars. Just as they have refined the concept of an electric automobile, the latest diesel technology that Audi is incorporating is a refined clean-buring diesel technology without the baggage of the old smokers. So I'm not sure which retrograde technological movement you have in mind.

dmishe 13y ago

What exactly did they measure for "cost per mile"? I have an audi tdi and it's a great machine for trips, but tesla is much more expensive up front :)

not_that_noob 13y ago

My bad - I misremembered - this is the quote from CR: "When it comes to efficiency, the Tesla is a runaway. The A7 gets an impressive 28 mpg overall, but the Model S delivers the equivalent of 84 mpg. That translates into only 4.4 cents per mile for the Tesla (based on an electricity rate of 11 cents per kilowatt- hour) vs. 14.3 cents for the Audi (based on diesel costing $4.00 per gallon)." As you were. EDIT: Ok I now remember why I misremembered. The delta in operating cost is about 10 cents/mile. The delta in price is $18,755 (ignoring rebates, credits, etc.). So you would have to drive 187,550 miles for the Tesla to come out ahead. In other words, the TDI A7 is at a similar TCO to the Tesla, but with extended range and quick fueling.

TylerE 13y ago
And then you can look at something like the BMW 328d that is "only" $42k and gets 43mpg, or a VW Golf TDI (Disclaimer: I own one) for around $27k and 40-45mpg in the real world. FWIW, my lifetime actual fuel costs have $0.110/mi over almost 40,000 miles, and that's based on basiclly worst possible variables... auto transmission instead of a stick, hot climate (lots of A/C usage, which is about a 2-5mpg ding), and lots of city driving.