4 ms·

Well, sometimes what you do in your personal time is your employers business. Would you feel the same way if rather than working on open source, he were doing t

by JackFr 13y ago

Well, sometimes what you do in your personal time is your employers business. Would you feel the same way if rather than working on open source, he were doing the same work moonlighting for a competitor of his employer? Its fine to say that the technology stack is different, but certainly he carries with him, perhaps unwittingly, certain proprietary information including but not limited to feature lists, customers and leads, marketing strategy, performance characteristics, etc. I don't think this guy is a necessarily bad guy by any stretch, and I don't think he was intentionally trying to harm his former employer, but he's a little clueless.

josh-wrale 13y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indentured_servant https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indentured_servant > Penal sanctions, previously considered perfectly in line with free labor, became in the 19th century a way to transform ordinary labor into "contracts of slavery."
the_ancient 13y ago
Personal time, is personal time, and none of the employers business even if moonlighting for a competitor. If the employer has a say over your personal time then you have no personal time and the employer owns you.
- Xylakant 13y ago
  >Personal time, is personal time, and none of the employers business even if moonlighting for a competitor. How are you proving that you did not use internal company knowledge to build the competing product? This is a legal nightmare, just do yourself a favor and don't do it. Or do you also think that NDA-clauses for employees are invalid?
  - the_ancient 13y ago
    I never said i did it or would do it... I like my employer and have no desire to moonlight at all. However they do not own me, which is what your implying with your statements. Any employer that needs to use legal threats and controls on my personal time to control me is probably not someone I would ever work for anyway
    - Xylakant 13y ago
      > Any employer that needs to use legal threats and controls on my personal time to control me is probably not someone I would ever work for anyway See, most people are trying to be nice and I'll take your word for it that you're one of them. That's not the people we write contracts for. The contracts and legal threats are for the people that don't play nice. Those employees that push of all their work to the colleagues so that they can not only moonlight for the competition, but actively support it during their time at the office. (no joke, seen that).
      - the_ancient 13y ago
        and contracts can be worded in a way that is not "While you work for me I own your mind"
Fuxy 13y ago
So by your reasoning he can never work in that field ever again because of the "proprietary" information he may have. Can we apply that to bricklayers as well? They might have "proprietary" information on how to make an arch or build a stable house or how the company is structured and organized so they probably shouldn't be allowed to work for anybody else in that field ever again.
- JackFr 13y ago
  Above the VP level in certain lines of business at an investment bank, its typical to take 'gardening leave' if you move to a competitor. Typically it will be between 30 and 90 days, where the new firm must pay you, and you cannot speak to or do any work for them. Both banks will take it very seriously, and it's great work if you can get it. The feeling is that 1) Non-competes won't work in the environment; and 2) these people have intimate and specific knowledge of deals in the works on the banking side and positions on the trading side. 'Gardening leave' is a solution that make everyone happy.
  - Fuxy 13y ago
    As long as the employer doesn't trow you onto the street and threatens to sue you fair enough. If they want that separation they have to be willing to pay for it. Would work wonders in software development where the code is complex enough to be forgotten in weeks.

by JackFr 13y ago

josh-wrale 13y ago

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indentured_servant https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indentured_servant > Penal sanctions, previously considered perfectly in line with free labor, became in the 19th century a way to transform ordinary labor into "contracts of slavery."

the_ancient 13y ago

Personal time, is personal time, and none of the employers business even if moonlighting for a competitor. If the employer has a say over your personal time then you have no personal time and the employer owns you.

Xylakant 13y ago
>Personal time, is personal time, and none of the employers business even if moonlighting for a competitor. How are you proving that you did not use internal company knowledge to build the competing product? This is a legal nightmare, just do yourself a favor and don't do it. Or do you also think that NDA-clauses for employees are invalid?
- the_ancient 13y ago
  I never said i did it or would do it... I like my employer and have no desire to moonlight at all. However they do not own me, which is what your implying with your statements. Any employer that needs to use legal threats and controls on my personal time to control me is probably not someone I would ever work for anyway
  - Xylakant 13y ago
    > Any employer that needs to use legal threats and controls on my personal time to control me is probably not someone I would ever work for anyway See, most people are trying to be nice and I'll take your word for it that you're one of them. That's not the people we write contracts for. The contracts and legal threats are for the people that don't play nice. Those employees that push of all their work to the colleagues so that they can not only moonlight for the competition, but actively support it during their time at the office. (no joke, seen that).
    - the_ancient 13y ago
      and contracts can be worded in a way that is not "While you work for me I own your mind"

Fuxy 13y ago

So by your reasoning he can never work in that field ever again because of the "proprietary" information he may have. Can we apply that to bricklayers as well? They might have "proprietary" information on how to make an arch or build a stable house or how the company is structured and organized so they probably shouldn't be allowed to work for anybody else in that field ever again.

JackFr 13y ago
Above the VP level in certain lines of business at an investment bank, its typical to take 'gardening leave' if you move to a competitor. Typically it will be between 30 and 90 days, where the new firm must pay you, and you cannot speak to or do any work for them. Both banks will take it very seriously, and it's great work if you can get it. The feeling is that 1) Non-competes won't work in the environment; and 2) these people have intimate and specific knowledge of deals in the works on the banking side and positions on the trading side. 'Gardening leave' is a solution that make everyone happy.
- Fuxy 13y ago
  As long as the employer doesn't trow you onto the street and threatens to sue you fair enough. If they want that separation they have to be willing to pay for it. Would work wonders in software development where the code is complex enough to be forgotten in weeks.