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>400hp electric motor costs about $24,000 vs. a 400hp gas engine at about $6000. You think the motor in the Telsa costs 24 large? I'd say you are off by an or

by pravda 13y ago

>400hp electric motor costs about $24,000 vs. a 400hp gas engine at about $6000. You think the motor in the Telsa costs 24 large? I'd say you are off by an order of magnitude. What are the big-ticket repair items on an gas car? The engine and the transmission. Electric motors are maintenance-free, and the Telsa doesn't have a transmission. Also, there is minimal vibration and heat compared to a gas engine. I would guess maintenance costs on an electric car are 1/4th of a gas car. Except the battery pack, of course. That will eventually need to be replaced.

jamesaguilar 13y ago
> I'd say you are off by an order of magnitude. On what basis? I know he didn't cite, and I'm not trying to put the burden of proof on you, but I'm curious why you think this. As in, I'd like to see some data (from either side). I did some brief searching and he is correct that [45]00 HP brushless motors seem to go in the low five figures (at least on Ebay, which I know is not representative of Tesla's costs). I'm happy to believe Tesla's cost less, but I'm not sure.
- letstryagain 13y ago
  The entire car is only about twice that, and we know the battery is very expensive. There's no way the electric motor costs $24k.
  - jesusmichael 13y ago
    Here's one on Ebay for $10k.. Ebay! http://www.ebay.com/bhp/300-hp-electric-motor http://www.ebay.com/bhp/300-hp-electric-motor General Purpose 350HP motor. $25K http://www.globalindustrial.com/p/motors/ac-motors-2-phase/3-phase-general-purpose-motors/baldor-motor-m44354t-4-350-hp-1785-rpm http://www.globalindustrial.com/p/motors/ac-motors-2-phase/3... In general these motors have tight tolerances and aren't the motors in your electric shaver The entire car cost $70K...
    - D_Alex 13y ago
      Referring to your 350 hp example: 1. That motor is a low speed motor, as such it is massive. It weighs 3044 pounds. The Tesla motor runs at nearly 10 times the speed, and ought to be roughly a factor of 10 lighter. 2. See how the price drops by almost 10% when you buy more than 5 of these motors? Now imagine you are buying 20,000+... 3. You can bet the manufacturer of the motor (Baldor) did not get $25k for it. I imagine the markup for the reseller is of the order of 30-50%, on top of other costs such as transport. These do not apply to Tesla. I am pretty sure even $6000/unit is an over-estimate. I have some information from an occasionally reliable source that the entire car costs around $20,000 to make. This is the "incremental cost", after tooling, R&D etc has been paid for. This is apparently about the same as a top level mass produced luxury Benz - for the Benz, the much higher inherent production cost is offset by the scale and efficiency of their production line.
      - jesusmichael 13y ago
        The comparison is retail to retail... Not wholesale cost. I'm sure if you need a motor, because yours failed after 6 years, they aren't going to sell it to you for wholesale. And if they are marking up the cost of the car by 400% than if their motor is $5000... you'll be paying $20k
      - jesusmichael 13y ago
        Analysis estimates of the cost of the car are about $56K http://green.autoblog.com/2014/02/26/why-teslas-35000-model-e-pipe-dream/ http://green.autoblog.com/2014/02/26/why-teslas-35000-model-... That $20k motor is much less advanced than what's in a Tesla... So @ $24k I think its a bargin... what is the rest of the car? Aluminum and Plastic and a couple of computers...
- pravda 13y ago
  On the basis that it is the size of a (very large) watermelon. What's it made of? Copper and steel and aluminum. $1000 of materials and $1000 in labor. Here's a pic: http://insideevs.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/Screen-Shot-2014-03-09-at-1.58.38-PM.png http://insideevs.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/Screen-Shot-... Then of course there is the cost of the cooling jacket and the electronics. I can't estimate that readily.
  - jamesaguilar 13y ago
    This manner of cost estimation is not convincing to me, for reasons that should be obvious to anyone. There are plenty of small things that cost a lot of money, because, perhaps, of the precision or techniques required to manufacture them or their components, or the dearness of the materials that compose the minority of the object. TL;DR: What is a sub-one ounce object made mostly of silicon that costs more than a thousand dollars. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819116938 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819116...
    - btian 13y ago
      It doesn't cost $1000. What you're paying for is R&D. Just like a Windows 8 DVD doesn't cost hundred of dollars to make
      - jamesaguilar 13y ago
        The implicit claim being that Tesla does not factor in R&D when they charge consumers for replacements?
        btian 13y ago
        No, just pointing out that processed silicon does not cost Intel anything close to $1000. Also I doubt R&D cost for an electric motor is high because the technology is mature.
    - pravda 13y ago
- rfrey 13y ago
  In that range the price usually includes the controller and associated power electronics, which is a significant fraction of the cost.

by pravda 13y ago

jamesaguilar 13y ago

> I'd say you are off by an order of magnitude. On what basis? I know he didn't cite, and I'm not trying to put the burden of proof on you, but I'm curious why you think this. As in, I'd like to see some data (from either side). I did some brief searching and he is correct that [45]00 HP brushless motors seem to go in the low five figures (at least on Ebay, which I know is not representative of Tesla's costs). I'm happy to believe Tesla's cost less, but I'm not sure.

letstryagain 13y ago
The entire car is only about twice that, and we know the battery is very expensive. There's no way the electric motor costs $24k.
- jesusmichael 13y ago
  Here's one on Ebay for $10k.. Ebay! http://www.ebay.com/bhp/300-hp-electric-motor http://www.ebay.com/bhp/300-hp-electric-motor General Purpose 350HP motor. $25K http://www.globalindustrial.com/p/motors/ac-motors-2-phase/3-phase-general-purpose-motors/baldor-motor-m44354t-4-350-hp-1785-rpm http://www.globalindustrial.com/p/motors/ac-motors-2-phase/3... In general these motors have tight tolerances and aren't the motors in your electric shaver The entire car cost $70K...
  - D_Alex 13y ago
    Referring to your 350 hp example: 1. That motor is a low speed motor, as such it is massive. It weighs 3044 pounds. The Tesla motor runs at nearly 10 times the speed, and ought to be roughly a factor of 10 lighter. 2. See how the price drops by almost 10% when you buy more than 5 of these motors? Now imagine you are buying 20,000+... 3. You can bet the manufacturer of the motor (Baldor) did not get $25k for it. I imagine the markup for the reseller is of the order of 30-50%, on top of other costs such as transport. These do not apply to Tesla. I am pretty sure even $6000/unit is an over-estimate. I have some information from an occasionally reliable source that the entire car costs around $20,000 to make. This is the "incremental cost", after tooling, R&D etc has been paid for. This is apparently about the same as a top level mass produced luxury Benz - for the Benz, the much higher inherent production cost is offset by the scale and efficiency of their production line.
    - jesusmichael 13y ago
      The comparison is retail to retail... Not wholesale cost. I'm sure if you need a motor, because yours failed after 6 years, they aren't going to sell it to you for wholesale. And if they are marking up the cost of the car by 400% than if their motor is $5000... you'll be paying $20k
    - jesusmichael 13y ago
      Analysis estimates of the cost of the car are about $56K http://green.autoblog.com/2014/02/26/why-teslas-35000-model-e-pipe-dream/ http://green.autoblog.com/2014/02/26/why-teslas-35000-model-... That $20k motor is much less advanced than what's in a Tesla... So @ $24k I think its a bargin... what is the rest of the car? Aluminum and Plastic and a couple of computers...
pravda 13y ago
On the basis that it is the size of a (very large) watermelon. What's it made of? Copper and steel and aluminum. $1000 of materials and $1000 in labor. Here's a pic: http://insideevs.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/Screen-Shot-2014-03-09-at-1.58.38-PM.png http://insideevs.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/Screen-Shot-... Then of course there is the cost of the cooling jacket and the electronics. I can't estimate that readily.
- jamesaguilar 13y ago
  This manner of cost estimation is not convincing to me, for reasons that should be obvious to anyone. There are plenty of small things that cost a lot of money, because, perhaps, of the precision or techniques required to manufacture them or their components, or the dearness of the materials that compose the minority of the object. TL;DR: What is a sub-one ounce object made mostly of silicon that costs more than a thousand dollars. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819116938 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819116...
  - btian 13y ago
    It doesn't cost $1000. What you're paying for is R&D. Just like a Windows 8 DVD doesn't cost hundred of dollars to make
    - jamesaguilar 13y ago
      The implicit claim being that Tesla does not factor in R&D when they charge consumers for replacements?
      - btian 13y ago
        No, just pointing out that processed silicon does not cost Intel anything close to $1000. Also I doubt R&D cost for an electric motor is high because the technology is mature.
  - pravda 13y ago
rfrey 13y ago
In that range the price usually includes the controller and associated power electronics, which is a significant fraction of the cost.