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Around the same time the casino say this happened, Crockfords Casino in London were withholding winnings from Ivey, claiming he used the same method, edge sorti

by mwill 12y ago

Around the same time the casino say this happened, Crockfords Casino in London were withholding winnings from Ivey, claiming he used the same method, edge sorting, to win around $10M playing a variant of Baccarat. Last year, he admitted to noticing a flaw in the cards and exploiting it, but asserted it wasn't cheating and the Casino should have noticed it.

girvo 12y ago
You know what, I agree with him. Considering nearly everything at a casino is set such that your average person will consistently lose, I've got no problems with someone finding a flaw in their cards (which, considering how seriously casinos take that sort of thing, they should have caught) and taking advantage of it like Ivey allegedly has. The law shouldn't be "Casinos win even when they fuck up", in my opinion.
- dghughes 12y ago
  What if there happened to be a flaw which resulted in people losing? You act as if gambling is rigged, throw some dice a few hundred times then blame the dice for cheating you.
  - Iburinoc 12y ago
    He's not saying dice or other activities like that are rigged, he's saying the odds in casinos are manufactured such that the house wins most of the time.
nabla9 12y ago
I always wondered how one of the best professional poker players in the world would be so big degen that he would routinely throw away hundreds of thousands in card games where he could not win. This and the Crockfords Casino incident make his behavior more understandable. It seems that he did not really cheat, , he just exploited flaws.
- mwill 12y ago
  To be fair, Ivey is supposedly a total degen outside of Poker, plays craps, makes prop bets, bets on sports etc. There's stories floating around the web of him betting on coin tosses, for example. It wouldn't surprise me if he was simply playing Baccarat genuinely, noticed the possibility for edge sorting, and went for it, then looked for other casinos that had the same problem.
  - tehwebguy 12y ago
    degen?
    - baha_man 12y ago
      http://www.floattheturn.com/dictionary.php?word=d&page=3 http://www.floattheturn.com/dictionary.php?word=d&page=3 "Degenerate, often simply 'degen,' is a well-known appelation for players who behave in a self-destructive manner away from the poker table."
  - Sambdala 12y ago
    A friend of his has claimed privately that he takes advantage of specific lossback deals that certain casinos give certain high rollers, and this gives him a positive expectation at craps at least some of the time. However, it's hard to know how much truth there is to that.
    - parasubvert 12y ago
      This is likely true considering how low the house edge is on both Baccarat (1.06% on the banker) and basic craps (don't) pass/come with full 3-4-5 odds (around 0.37%) [1] Any small positive edge in lossback, card or dice placement will lead to advantage. Some of them can't do math as well as others, apparently. This is how Don Johnson (not the actor) broke a few casinos several years back, including - surprise! - Borgata. [2] [1] http://wizardofodds.com/gambling/house-edge/ http://wizardofodds.com/gambling/house-edge/ [2] http://m.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2012/04/the-man-who-broke-atlantic-city/308900/ http://m.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2012/04/the-man-wh...

by mwill 12y ago

girvo 12y ago

You know what, I agree with him. Considering nearly everything at a casino is set such that your average person will consistently lose, I've got no problems with someone finding a flaw in their cards (which, considering how seriously casinos take that sort of thing, they should have caught) and taking advantage of it like Ivey allegedly has. The law shouldn't be "Casinos win even when they fuck up", in my opinion.

dghughes 12y ago
What if there happened to be a flaw which resulted in people losing? You act as if gambling is rigged, throw some dice a few hundred times then blame the dice for cheating you.
- Iburinoc 12y ago
  He's not saying dice or other activities like that are rigged, he's saying the odds in casinos are manufactured such that the house wins most of the time.

nabla9 12y ago

I always wondered how one of the best professional poker players in the world would be so big degen that he would routinely throw away hundreds of thousands in card games where he could not win. This and the Crockfords Casino incident make his behavior more understandable. It seems that he did not really cheat, , he just exploited flaws.

mwill 12y ago
To be fair, Ivey is supposedly a total degen outside of Poker, plays craps, makes prop bets, bets on sports etc. There's stories floating around the web of him betting on coin tosses, for example. It wouldn't surprise me if he was simply playing Baccarat genuinely, noticed the possibility for edge sorting, and went for it, then looked for other casinos that had the same problem.
- tehwebguy 12y ago
  degen?
  - baha_man 12y ago
    http://www.floattheturn.com/dictionary.php?word=d&page=3 http://www.floattheturn.com/dictionary.php?word=d&page=3 "Degenerate, often simply 'degen,' is a well-known appelation for players who behave in a self-destructive manner away from the poker table."
- Sambdala 12y ago
  A friend of his has claimed privately that he takes advantage of specific lossback deals that certain casinos give certain high rollers, and this gives him a positive expectation at craps at least some of the time. However, it's hard to know how much truth there is to that.
  - parasubvert 12y ago
    This is likely true considering how low the house edge is on both Baccarat (1.06% on the banker) and basic craps (don't) pass/come with full 3-4-5 odds (around 0.37%) [1] Any small positive edge in lossback, card or dice placement will lead to advantage. Some of them can't do math as well as others, apparently. This is how Don Johnson (not the actor) broke a few casinos several years back, including - surprise! - Borgata. [2] [1] http://wizardofodds.com/gambling/house-edge/ http://wizardofodds.com/gambling/house-edge/ [2] http://m.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2012/04/the-man-who-broke-atlantic-city/308900/ http://m.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2012/04/the-man-wh...