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And anyone who is an experienced server is so accustomed to the concept that their compensation is nearly 100% tip-based and can no longer discern reality from

And anyone who is an experienced server is so accustomed to the concept that their compensation is nearly 100% tip-based and can no longer discern reality from the tipping model. Nearly all my server friends will consistently tell me about how they game the system, and how little their actual personality comes into play during their experience. In the name of tips, they routinely abandon their principles to earn more. Your replies sound defensive and biased, and, while I understand your motive, they don't really address the underlying issues surrounding tips. If I owned a restaurant, I would certainly not allow them, especially after learning of Porter's results.

doublerebel 13y ago
Can you provide any detail or evidence to support your third-person personal anecdote? It's a very simple system of good service in, tips out -- there is hardly room for 'gaming' or 'abandoning principles', whatever that is supposed to mean.
- kennywinker 13y ago
  how about "this man makes me feel very uncomfortable and constantly makes rude comments at me, but if I keep flirting with him he'll leave enough of a tip that I don't lose money when I tip out the cooks"
  - doublerebel 13y ago
    No different than "selling out" in any industry. If someone wants to abandon principles for monetary gain that is their choice. In any decent restaurant or bar, if a server feels uncomfortable they can give the table to another server or have them served by the manager. Rude customers are a reality but "we reserve the right to refuse service to anyone."
    - kennywinker 13y ago
      The thing I take issue with it is when you build a certain amount of abandoning principals into a job that could be done well without abandoning principals. I don't want my server to flirt with me, I want them to be civil, prompt, and helpful with the menu. There are plenty of people who will withhold tips from servers who are civil, prompt, and helpful with the menu because they didn't flirt with them. The tipping system puts power into those people's hands.
    - rtx 13y ago
      Why not simply promote minimum wage and fixed price menu. Even after that somebody wants to tip let them. However that will not be an expectation.
- tveita 13y ago
  What about the studies Jay Porter links to in his blog posts? https://www.hotelschool.cornell.edu/research/chr/pubs/tools/tooldetails-13630.html https://www.hotelschool.cornell.edu/research/chr/pubs/tools/... http://tippingresearch.com/uploads/managing_tips.pdf http://tippingresearch.com/uploads/managing_tips.pdf
  - doublerebel 13y ago
    I have read both studies. Neither suggest "abandoning principles." Both suggest common techniques for good sales (i.e. calling customers by name, upselling, being personable). This is no more a game than sales in any other situation.

doublerebel 13y ago

Can you provide any detail or evidence to support your third-person personal anecdote? It's a very simple system of good service in, tips out -- there is hardly room for 'gaming' or 'abandoning principles', whatever that is supposed to mean.

kennywinker 13y ago
how about "this man makes me feel very uncomfortable and constantly makes rude comments at me, but if I keep flirting with him he'll leave enough of a tip that I don't lose money when I tip out the cooks"
- doublerebel 13y ago
  No different than "selling out" in any industry. If someone wants to abandon principles for monetary gain that is their choice. In any decent restaurant or bar, if a server feels uncomfortable they can give the table to another server or have them served by the manager. Rude customers are a reality but "we reserve the right to refuse service to anyone."
  - kennywinker 13y ago
    The thing I take issue with it is when you build a certain amount of abandoning principals into a job that could be done well without abandoning principals. I don't want my server to flirt with me, I want them to be civil, prompt, and helpful with the menu. There are plenty of people who will withhold tips from servers who are civil, prompt, and helpful with the menu because they didn't flirt with them. The tipping system puts power into those people's hands.
  - rtx 13y ago
    Why not simply promote minimum wage and fixed price menu. Even after that somebody wants to tip let them. However that will not be an expectation.
tveita 13y ago
What about the studies Jay Porter links to in his blog posts? https://www.hotelschool.cornell.edu/research/chr/pubs/tools/tooldetails-13630.html https://www.hotelschool.cornell.edu/research/chr/pubs/tools/... http://tippingresearch.com/uploads/managing_tips.pdf http://tippingresearch.com/uploads/managing_tips.pdf
- doublerebel 13y ago
  I have read both studies. Neither suggest "abandoning principles." Both suggest common techniques for good sales (i.e. calling customers by name, upselling, being personable). This is no more a game than sales in any other situation.