4 ms·

I'm guessing that there isn't any legal recourse (monetary) for him from Goldman Sachs and the FBI ruining his life. Should there be? Goldman Sachs had every

by dm2 13y ago

I'm guessing that there isn't any legal recourse (monetary) for him from Goldman Sachs and the FBI ruining his life. Should there be? Goldman Sachs had every right to request that he be prosecuted, but no matter how the case turned out, his life would be ruined. I don't know of a good solution to this issue, but it just seems very wrong. I'm sure there have been countless instances of this happening though. Maybe a good solution would be to lessen the penalties for this type of crime. Maybe a legal requirement for a public apology and for the prosecutor to have to pay back legal costs? A portion of this restitution should come out of that courts budget or the department that perused the case without doing their due diligence. Did Sergey sign something saying that he could never remove code from the building or use it in another project? I'm not sure that it simply being company policy is enough, in my opinion. Has anyone here ever taken code from one employer with the intent of using it again if needed, simply to save time and not having to duplicate research? Should you be considered a criminal for that? Should you have to pay back the time the company paid you to write that code? It seems like the lessons are: 1) Don't talk to police, even if you did nothing wrong and they tell you they are on your side. Lawyer up. 2) Don't steal code, but if you do then encrypt it and put it on a portable media device. Uploading to a foreign SVN repository using the companies network wasn't very smart, don't do that. 3) Ensure that your employees know the company's policy on removing code from the premises. It seems pretty obvious but I believe that Sergey honestly didn't think he was doing anything wrong.

karmajunkie 13y ago
Should there be recourse for facilitating malicious prosecution? It's a travesty if there isn't.
- emn13 13y ago
  Travesty it is.
pmorici 13y ago
If there are no consequences to wrongly prosecuting someone just to hassle them then wouldn't that encourage people like Goldman Sachs to use that tool to extract revenge on people?
- rdtsc 13y ago
  Yes it would. If there are no repercussions this will happen again. I guess he can sue them in civil court but does he have the money for the lawyer? Does he have a chance?
  - dm2 13y ago
    Sergey did technically break the law (or so they reasonably thought) by taking company code with the intention of using it after he left the company. I think the real issue is whether or not he was acting maliciously, what the damage to Goldman Sachs was (basically none), and whether or not the punishment fit the crime. Maybe companies should be forced to have an exit interview for programmers with access to information the company deems sensitive and make sure the programmer knows that they are not allowed to take any code with them.
    - rdtsc 13y ago
      It seems GS replaced license headers from files with their own license. Painting with broad brush strokes here, is stealing from a thief still stealing?
      - dm2 13y ago
        After considering that some more, it seems like the court could (and maybe should) have ruled that it was simply a misunderstanding of the open-source code's license. It seems like a waste of everyone's time to even pursue a case such as this after it's determined that the person didn't have malicious intentions. Could the owner of the modified code successfully sue Goldman Sachs?
        HeyLaughingBoy 13y ago
        On what grounds? If it was GPL'd code and GS was conforming to the GPL terms, what are they to be sued for?
    - emn13 13y ago
dopamean 13y ago
IIRC the prosecutor in Durham, NC that went after the Duke lacrosse team was disbarred but I'm not sure what monetary penalties were allowed.
- dm2 13y ago
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duke_lacrosse_case http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duke_lacrosse_case Yep, but that prosecutor lied just to try to win the case. He was disbarred and sentenced to one day in jail and a $500 fine after attempting to ruin several peoples lives just so that his win/loss stats would be slightly better. Courts have said that the players can pursue charges against the prosecutor. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Nifong http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Nifong They also didn't bring charges against the woman who falsely accused the lacrosse players of rape. She has since been convicted of several crimes including attempted murder and second-degree murder. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crystal_Gail_Mangum#Arrests_since_lacrosse_case http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crystal_Gail_Mangum#Arrests_sin...
  - hackuser 13y ago
    I remember trying to edit those Wikipedia pages. There was a gang of users with names like Duke123 and BlueDevil456 who allowed nothing but biased information in favor of the players or against the prosecutor and alleged victim. All of Wikipedia's standards (NPOV, verifiability, etc.) went right out the window. I've seen it on other Wikipedia pages about hot issues, but those pages were the worst. I wouldn't trust a thing I read there (or about any hot issue on Wikipedia).
- hackuser 13y ago
  > IIRC the prosecutor in Durham, NC that went after the Duke lacrosse team was disbarred but I'm not sure what monetary penalties were allowed. But that was the reverse situation. The local prosecutor was representing the weak (a local stripper) against the powerful (the Duke lacrosse players, some of whose parents were powerful inside-the-beltway PR experts). They ran a nationwide media campaign vilifying the alleged victim and the prosecutor; you're a local DA or a stripper and you turn on CNN and see that? What hope do you have to compete? Hire a national PR team? I remember the NY Times coverage (which I usually greatly respect) pretty much repeating the lacrosse players' side point by point. Think of all the egregious prosecutorial misconduct you've read about; why was this one disbarred? When the United States Attorney General is weighing in on a local rape case and the state bar is threatening you, you know have messed with the wrong people as a prosecutor. Whatever happened between the lacrosse players and the stripper, the outcome had nothing to do with the facts or justice. They were tried (really she and the prosecutor were) in the press and were successfully prevented from having their day in court, where they are given an equal chance to speak -- it is supposed to be the leveler in our democracy.
WiseWeasel 13y ago
0) Don't work for Goldman Sachs.
foobarian 13y ago
To me the lesson is: 1) Avoid GS like the Satan. Actually avoid the whole financial industry.
fchollet 13y ago
You forgot the biggest takeaway: 0) Don't work for Goldman Sachs. Dance with the sharks, and they'll bite your arm off eventually.

by dm2 13y ago

karmajunkie 13y ago

Should there be recourse for facilitating malicious prosecution? It's a travesty if there isn't.

emn13 13y ago
Travesty it is.

pmorici 13y ago

If there are no consequences to wrongly prosecuting someone just to hassle them then wouldn't that encourage people like Goldman Sachs to use that tool to extract revenge on people?

rdtsc 13y ago
Yes it would. If there are no repercussions this will happen again. I guess he can sue them in civil court but does he have the money for the lawyer? Does he have a chance?
- dm2 13y ago
  Sergey did technically break the law (or so they reasonably thought) by taking company code with the intention of using it after he left the company. I think the real issue is whether or not he was acting maliciously, what the damage to Goldman Sachs was (basically none), and whether or not the punishment fit the crime. Maybe companies should be forced to have an exit interview for programmers with access to information the company deems sensitive and make sure the programmer knows that they are not allowed to take any code with them.
  - rdtsc 13y ago
    It seems GS replaced license headers from files with their own license. Painting with broad brush strokes here, is stealing from a thief still stealing?
    - dm2 13y ago
      After considering that some more, it seems like the court could (and maybe should) have ruled that it was simply a misunderstanding of the open-source code's license. It seems like a waste of everyone's time to even pursue a case such as this after it's determined that the person didn't have malicious intentions. Could the owner of the modified code successfully sue Goldman Sachs?
      - HeyLaughingBoy 13y ago
        On what grounds? If it was GPL'd code and GS was conforming to the GPL terms, what are they to be sued for?
  - emn13 13y ago

dopamean 13y ago

IIRC the prosecutor in Durham, NC that went after the Duke lacrosse team was disbarred but I'm not sure what monetary penalties were allowed.

dm2 13y ago
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duke_lacrosse_case http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duke_lacrosse_case Yep, but that prosecutor lied just to try to win the case. He was disbarred and sentenced to one day in jail and a $500 fine after attempting to ruin several peoples lives just so that his win/loss stats would be slightly better. Courts have said that the players can pursue charges against the prosecutor. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Nifong http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Nifong They also didn't bring charges against the woman who falsely accused the lacrosse players of rape. She has since been convicted of several crimes including attempted murder and second-degree murder. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crystal_Gail_Mangum#Arrests_since_lacrosse_case http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crystal_Gail_Mangum#Arrests_sin...
- hackuser 13y ago
  I remember trying to edit those Wikipedia pages. There was a gang of users with names like Duke123 and BlueDevil456 who allowed nothing but biased information in favor of the players or against the prosecutor and alleged victim. All of Wikipedia's standards (NPOV, verifiability, etc.) went right out the window. I've seen it on other Wikipedia pages about hot issues, but those pages were the worst. I wouldn't trust a thing I read there (or about any hot issue on Wikipedia).
hackuser 13y ago
> IIRC the prosecutor in Durham, NC that went after the Duke lacrosse team was disbarred but I'm not sure what monetary penalties were allowed. But that was the reverse situation. The local prosecutor was representing the weak (a local stripper) against the powerful (the Duke lacrosse players, some of whose parents were powerful inside-the-beltway PR experts). They ran a nationwide media campaign vilifying the alleged victim and the prosecutor; you're a local DA or a stripper and you turn on CNN and see that? What hope do you have to compete? Hire a national PR team? I remember the NY Times coverage (which I usually greatly respect) pretty much repeating the lacrosse players' side point by point. Think of all the egregious prosecutorial misconduct you've read about; why was this one disbarred? When the United States Attorney General is weighing in on a local rape case and the state bar is threatening you, you know have messed with the wrong people as a prosecutor. Whatever happened between the lacrosse players and the stripper, the outcome had nothing to do with the facts or justice. They were tried (really she and the prosecutor were) in the press and were successfully prevented from having their day in court, where they are given an equal chance to speak -- it is supposed to be the leveler in our democracy.

WiseWeasel 13y ago

0) Don't work for Goldman Sachs.

foobarian 13y ago

To me the lesson is: 1) Avoid GS like the Satan. Actually avoid the whole financial industry.

fchollet 13y ago

You forgot the biggest takeaway: 0) Don't work for Goldman Sachs. Dance with the sharks, and they'll bite your arm off eventually.