5 ms·

US seizing tax refunds of children over parents' debt

26 points by codegeek 13y ago

deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
- opendais 13y ago
  I find it is much easier/safer to aim to go over by small amounts [e.g. I went $34 over, I aimed for $50 over] and avoid that. I can afford to give them a $50 interest free loan, and if they seize it, I'm not going to care too much.
epistasis 13y ago
This is a terribly written article, borderline incomprehensible. The first linked article is much more clear: http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/social-security-treasury-target-hundreds-of-thousands-of-taxpayers-for-parents-old-debts/2014/04/10/74ac8eae-bf4d-11e3-bcec-b71ee10e9bc3_story.html?hpid=z1 http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/social-security-treas...
- magicalist 13y ago
  Considerably more clear. For some reason the linked article also keeps changing font size, like a badly copy-pasted email. The money quote, for anyone wondering how they can collect debt on people's children: "The Federal Trade Commission, on its Web site, advises Americans that “family members typically are not obligated to pay the debts of a deceased relative from their own assets.” But Social Security officials say that if children indirectly received assistance from public dollars paid to a parent, the children’s money can be taken, no matter how long ago any overpayment occurred." That seems like very tenuous legal theory, as it seems like it could apply to any debt the parent accrued, at least while they had dependents. I'm curious if this has gone through the courts before, but unfortunately this seems to be in one of those legal loopholes of civil cases, that you don't have a right to defend yourself in court before they take money from your refund, and in order to bring suit, you have to prove you have standing, which most people don't have for decades old debts of their parents...
coldcode 13y ago
Why is this here? This is nothing a thinly veiled political rant which creates an impression without any actual evidence. Find a real story with facts and maybe it's interesting.
hippich 13y ago
Slightly unrelated: So I am foreigner living here with greencard for just few year, so I might miss something. After filing my fifth tax return this year I was wondering - why I need to spend an evening at all doing copy/paste from paper forms I receive in the mail, when IRS receives same forms? I.e. why IRS can't just send me a bill or a check if they already have all numbers? I understand there might be some issues with self-employed people, but I think majority's income is reported on W-2 or 1099 forms. And for minority who is not part of these reporting could be required to go with some additional calculation.
- stronglikedan 13y ago
  Mortgages, donations, and other deductibles. As well as stock trades, investments and other sources of income. I used to wonder that as well until I bought a house and did some investing. For the more simple returns, there's easier ways than copy/pasting. If it's just a W2, there's apps that let you take a picture of it, and it'll OCR it and populate the forms automagically.
  - hippich 13y ago
    mortgages already send reports to IRS. System could be set where IRS send an estimate and tax payer either pays/agrees for refund, or send back updated one with deduction and supporting documentation for these deduction. I own a house, do freelancing, investment done in retirement accounts, HSA accounts. Except business expenses, everything else was already reported to IRS either by bank, or employer or client on 1099-MISC. If there would be a form I could just sign and send back - I probably would skip expenses completely in this year. And for majority of people I feel like there would be nothing to report what already is not reported.
- maxerickson 13y ago
  The tax preparation industry has more lobbyists than you (and I) do. stronglikedan has a fair point with deductible expenses, but they could send a prepared statement to anyone who took the standard deduction in the previous year. Or they could send prepared statements to everyone, with some mechanism for adjusting the deductions (which should still be a big simplification). Edit: It probably also makes sense to just let people change anything on the statement; it shouldn't matter, but I think there are lots of people that would find that allowance reassuring.

26 points by codegeek 13y ago

deleted 13y ago

[deleted]

opendais 13y ago
I find it is much easier/safer to aim to go over by small amounts [e.g. I went $34 over, I aimed for $50 over] and avoid that. I can afford to give them a $50 interest free loan, and if they seize it, I'm not going to care too much.

epistasis 13y ago

This is a terribly written article, borderline incomprehensible. The first linked article is much more clear: http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/social-security-treasury-target-hundreds-of-thousands-of-taxpayers-for-parents-old-debts/2014/04/10/74ac8eae-bf4d-11e3-bcec-b71ee10e9bc3_story.html?hpid=z1 http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/social-security-treas...

magicalist 13y ago
Considerably more clear. For some reason the linked article also keeps changing font size, like a badly copy-pasted email. The money quote, for anyone wondering how they can collect debt on people's children: "The Federal Trade Commission, on its Web site, advises Americans that “family members typically are not obligated to pay the debts of a deceased relative from their own assets.” But Social Security officials say that if children indirectly received assistance from public dollars paid to a parent, the children’s money can be taken, no matter how long ago any overpayment occurred." That seems like very tenuous legal theory, as it seems like it could apply to any debt the parent accrued, at least while they had dependents. I'm curious if this has gone through the courts before, but unfortunately this seems to be in one of those legal loopholes of civil cases, that you don't have a right to defend yourself in court before they take money from your refund, and in order to bring suit, you have to prove you have standing, which most people don't have for decades old debts of their parents...

coldcode 13y ago

Why is this here? This is nothing a thinly veiled political rant which creates an impression without any actual evidence. Find a real story with facts and maybe it's interesting.

hippich 13y ago

Slightly unrelated: So I am foreigner living here with greencard for just few year, so I might miss something. After filing my fifth tax return this year I was wondering - why I need to spend an evening at all doing copy/paste from paper forms I receive in the mail, when IRS receives same forms? I.e. why IRS can't just send me a bill or a check if they already have all numbers? I understand there might be some issues with self-employed people, but I think majority's income is reported on W-2 or 1099 forms. And for minority who is not part of these reporting could be required to go with some additional calculation.

stronglikedan 13y ago
Mortgages, donations, and other deductibles. As well as stock trades, investments and other sources of income. I used to wonder that as well until I bought a house and did some investing. For the more simple returns, there's easier ways than copy/pasting. If it's just a W2, there's apps that let you take a picture of it, and it'll OCR it and populate the forms automagically.
- hippich 13y ago
  mortgages already send reports to IRS. System could be set where IRS send an estimate and tax payer either pays/agrees for refund, or send back updated one with deduction and supporting documentation for these deduction. I own a house, do freelancing, investment done in retirement accounts, HSA accounts. Except business expenses, everything else was already reported to IRS either by bank, or employer or client on 1099-MISC. If there would be a form I could just sign and send back - I probably would skip expenses completely in this year. And for majority of people I feel like there would be nothing to report what already is not reported.
maxerickson 13y ago
The tax preparation industry has more lobbyists than you (and I) do. stronglikedan has a fair point with deductible expenses, but they could send a prepared statement to anyone who took the standard deduction in the previous year. Or they could send prepared statements to everyone, with some mechanism for adjusting the deductions (which should still be a big simplification). Edit: It probably also makes sense to just let people change anything on the statement; it shouldn't matter, but I think there are lots of people that would find that allowance reassuring.