5 ms·

> I hope this extends to opposing the Obama administration, which has continued and extended war, torture, and the patriot act. Of course it does. That's the

by nilved 13y ago

> I hope this extends to opposing the Obama administration, which has continued and extended war, torture, and the patriot act. Of course it does. That's the logical conclusion. Why wouldn't it? There isn't any informed person in 2014 who is unable to realize Obama has been worse than Bush as far as torture and war go.

clarky07 13y ago
And yet Bush is universally hated and Obama was elected to a second term. I think we are in agreement as to our feelings about this, but your snark is subtle if we are :-)
- nilved 13y ago
  Bush was elected to a second term.
rbanffy 13y ago
> Obama has been worse than Bush as far as torture and war go Please remind me how many wars did Obama start based on fake intelligence. Obama may not be the president the world hoped he would be, but Bush is on a whole different league. If the US is much less secure today than it was before 9/11, you can thank Bush and his cronies (Rice included) for that. That situation also severely limits what your current president can do.
- nilved 13y ago
  Bush isn't actively dropping bombs on schoolhouses. Bush isn't actively detaining and torturing people in black sites. These are things that were pioneered by Bush and perfected by Obama. If you hate Bush, you need to hate Obama, or you're simply an unreasonable hypocrite. This isn't up for debate.
  - newsreader 13y ago
    Totally agree.
  - rbanffy 13y ago
    Bush started your country down a path that has led it towards unprecedented insecurity and cost countless lives, both Americans and foreigners, and he did it on a crucial moment when he had the option to act differently. Obama is left with little choice in a lot of regards - the world - and your country - is already the wreck Bush left us with. Just leaving Iraq on day one would lead the country to a certain civil war and most likely another yet theocracy that hates the US (and this one for reason I can completely understand). Just closing Guantanamo would unravel an insane chain of resentment that most probably should have been faced rather than postponed. I hate neither. Bush was grossly incompetent. Spectacularly incompetent. Dangerously incompetent. Again, Obama is a huge disappointment, but I suspect he, under less grim circumstances, would have been a much better president than he is now. In so many ways, his hands are tied. A president - any president - is limited in his actions to what's legally and politically possible and that severely restricts his actions. Even with his hands tied, Obama is light years ahead of his predecessor.
- sroerick 13y ago
  Do you consider the drone campaigns in Yemen, Pakistan and Somilia to be wars?
hackuser 13y ago
How has Obama been worse about torture than Bush? AFAIK he stopped the torture programs that Bush started. He should do more, such as prosecuting the torturers. We will see if he releases the key information in the Senate report. But I wouldn't call him worse.
- a8000 13y ago
  Obama went back to just killing suspected terrorists, instead of torturing them.

by nilved 13y ago

clarky07 13y ago

And yet Bush is universally hated and Obama was elected to a second term. I think we are in agreement as to our feelings about this, but your snark is subtle if we are :-)

nilved 13y ago
Bush was elected to a second term.

rbanffy 13y ago

> Obama has been worse than Bush as far as torture and war go Please remind me how many wars did Obama start based on fake intelligence. Obama may not be the president the world hoped he would be, but Bush is on a whole different league. If the US is much less secure today than it was before 9/11, you can thank Bush and his cronies (Rice included) for that. That situation also severely limits what your current president can do.

nilved 13y ago
Bush isn't actively dropping bombs on schoolhouses. Bush isn't actively detaining and torturing people in black sites. These are things that were pioneered by Bush and perfected by Obama. If you hate Bush, you need to hate Obama, or you're simply an unreasonable hypocrite. This isn't up for debate.
- newsreader 13y ago
  Totally agree.
- rbanffy 13y ago
  Bush started your country down a path that has led it towards unprecedented insecurity and cost countless lives, both Americans and foreigners, and he did it on a crucial moment when he had the option to act differently. Obama is left with little choice in a lot of regards - the world - and your country - is already the wreck Bush left us with. Just leaving Iraq on day one would lead the country to a certain civil war and most likely another yet theocracy that hates the US (and this one for reason I can completely understand). Just closing Guantanamo would unravel an insane chain of resentment that most probably should have been faced rather than postponed. I hate neither. Bush was grossly incompetent. Spectacularly incompetent. Dangerously incompetent. Again, Obama is a huge disappointment, but I suspect he, under less grim circumstances, would have been a much better president than he is now. In so many ways, his hands are tied. A president - any president - is limited in his actions to what's legally and politically possible and that severely restricts his actions. Even with his hands tied, Obama is light years ahead of his predecessor.
sroerick 13y ago
Do you consider the drone campaigns in Yemen, Pakistan and Somilia to be wars?

hackuser 13y ago

How has Obama been worse about torture than Bush? AFAIK he stopped the torture programs that Bush started. He should do more, such as prosecuting the torturers. We will see if he releases the key information in the Senate report. But I wouldn't call him worse.

a8000 13y ago
Obama went back to just killing suspected terrorists, instead of torturing them.