8 ms·

Firefox OS 2.0 starts emerging from its cocoon

148 points by Garbage 13y ago

toggle 13y ago
I'm really excited about this. I recently installed Firefox OS 1.4 on my cheapo ZTE Open (it came with 1.0), and the difference is huge. I thought I heard somewhere that they are shooting for 2.0 in July. Ignore everything this article says about the Geeksphone Revolution, though. Geeksphone has dropped the ball so many times with that device; they seem to be pretty incompetent, to be honest. Some owners have said that the Revolution's build of Firefox OS deviates pretty far from the official one -- who knows if you'll be able to get 2.0 on it easily.
- aspidistra 13y ago
  > I thought I heard somewhere that they are shooting for 2.0 in July. This CNET article says testing is "due to begin in late July": http://www.cnet.com/uk/news/new-features-and-appearance-for-firefox-os-2-0-emerge/ http://www.cnet.com/uk/news/new-features-and-appearance-for-...
- chestnut-tree 13y ago
  I'm excited by this too. I really hope Firefox OS gains traction. And the new screenshots look quite attractive. I just hope the Firefox OS team can deliver a unique OS with it's own distinctive design and interaction behaviour. One that doesn't clone behaviour from the existing (dominant) mobile OSes. Obviously there will be similarities with the other mobile OSes, but I think there is still scope for new ideas or even just simpler, easier implementations of common tasks.
- Touche 13y ago
  So what is the best phone to get with Firefox OS then? Even if that means flashing it yourself? Galaxy S 3 maybe? Nexus 4 or 5?
  - fabrice_d 13y ago
    If you are not in a hurry, I would wait for the reference device (codename 'Flame') that will ship in the coming months. It's not as high end as a Nexus 5 but FxOS runs superbly there (it's a dual core with 4.5" screen).
    - Touche 13y ago
      Sweet, I've waited for 2 years so I can wait a bit longer.
    - w0ts0n 13y ago
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJZZvXzTtCo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJZZvXzTtCo
      - Groxx 13y ago
        A little context next time, please. Link is to a video of Firefox OS running on a Nexus 4.
  - chuckharmston 13y ago
    Depending on your needs, there's a developer/reference device coming out soon: https://blog.mozilla.org/press/2014/02/developer-momentum-2/ https://blog.mozilla.org/press/2014/02/developer-momentum-2/
- janjongboom 13y ago
  Of course you can run 2.0 on it. You'll have to build Gecko with the Revolution patches for now, but they're open source. Other than that, the Keon and Peak (previous generation GeeksPhones) are the most hackable phones I ever had. Daily new builds of all versions, and easy to build custom Gecko for it. Guess they will do the same for the Revolution. (I have Keon, Peak and Revolution)
- leke 13y ago
  I found it too difficult to figure out how to install updates on the ZTE Open, so I have only installed the official 1.1 update.
- gcb0 13y ago
  1.0 to 1.4 and the diff is huge? cmon! The browser still have One option on the settings screen: clear cache. That's it. No extensions, no block js, no block or allow sites opening new windows... No
  - anon4 13y ago
    Those options are confusing for users and can break sites and then users wonder "where is grumpy cat?" :^).
    - gcb0 13y ago
      if i wanted to be dumbed down i'd use google chorme :) now really, those options are not useless and just for confusion, and i will argue anyone who says otherwise. most options there are for usability. Yeah, for you being able to run add-ons is just a convenient way to download movies from streaming porn sites... but for me it may be a way to run stylish and use a high contrast theme so i can actually read the sites! ...and just the fact that i have to use add-ons+stylish instead of a simple user style file like most old browsers allowed is already absurd enough.
CodeGlitch 13y ago
As a huge Mozilla fan, I really do hope that Firefox OS takes off at least in a small way. I hear that the Firefox browser isn't being used so much on Android (people are tending to stick to the default Chrome browser). Mozilla really do need to get into the mobile market.
- smacktoward 13y ago
  Defaults are such powerful things. If Microsoft had managed to keep IE even marginally competent back in the Long Browser Winter, the window for alternative browsers on the desktop would have been much, much narrower.
  - frou_dh 13y ago
    It's my hunch that a lot of Mac owners never give Safari a fair chance because their time in Windows land drummed in to them the notion that only dummies use the default browser.
    - wwweston 13y ago
      Doesn't help that it's not particularly compelling: http://www.zdnet.com/the-big-browser-benchmark-january-2013-edition-7000009776/ http://www.zdnet.com/the-big-browser-benchmark-january-2013-... http://www.techradar.com/us/news/software/applications/best-browser-which-should-you-be-using-932466 http://www.techradar.com/us/news/software/applications/best-... I use Safari daily, both to test and to visit several popular websites. My experience is that it's the first to somehow lock up with even a moderate number of windows/tabs open. There's a lot of things to like about OS X, but these days I don't think Apple's heart is in web-related stuff.
      - frou_dh 13y ago
        IMO it still has the best overall look and feel. Anecdotally, I very seldom see any freezes or crashes. Perhaps having plug-ins completely disabled makes the difference.
      - 13y ago
techwatching 13y ago
Is there any likelihood that FFOS will ever be more than a niche player? From where I'm sitting it looks like Android & iOS are the big players, Windows Phone is the plucky upstart, and then there's dark horses and complementary products like Tizen and so on. With all of the big brands out there, where does FFOS propose to carve out a niche?
- dbpatterson 13y ago
  They've always said they are aiming to target cheaper less powerful phones. Right now the bulk of the world is using cheap phones probably running Symbian or something similar. Whether they actually will be able to target that group is up for debate, but that's been their (stated) plan.
  - chestnut-tree 13y ago
    "They've always said they are aiming to target cheaper less powerful phones" Android can increasingly be found on a lot of cheap, low-cost smartphones too - and there's a large established app marketplace. Firefox OS has a couple of potential advantages though. If the Firefox team can deliver on fast native performance for HTML apps, then development for the OS will be magnitudes easier (potentially) than developing for rival OSes. User privacy is another feature where Firefox OS could easily outshine its rivals. I'd love to see a Firefox OS laptop that goes head to head with ChromeOS for example (Google's OS tracks everything you do - even printing to your desktop printer).
    - TazeTSchnitzel 13y ago
      They're also targeting low-memory handsets which Android is excluding.
    - yulaow 13y ago
      I Think WP and FirefoxOS are the two big players in the low-end smartphone market, and the victory of one of those depends on that segment of phones. WindowsPhone8.1 already allow developers to use html5/js to create native apps (using winJS or any other framework) and the smartphone that sold most is the lumia520 -> the most low cost of all the wp gamma. I hope FirefoxOS will succeed, but considering that MS is trowing literally Billions to keep wp alive, I doubt it will be easy.
untilHellbanned 13y ago
Glad to see Mozilla pushing ahead, putting the Brendan Eich story behind them. I bought the ZTE Open and am rooting for them.
- mattl 13y ago
  I bought one as well. Can you root mine too, please?
- adl 13y ago
  I bought mine yesterday! It's not my daily driver, but I wanted to to test a few HTML5 Apps and to show my support to Mozilla and Firefox. at 70 US dollars (950 mexican pesos) it was a steal. My father needs a phone, (his 'feature' phone went dead a few weeks ago) and that little ZTE Open Firefox OS phone is a perfect replacement.
donbronson 13y ago
The mobile ecosystem could really use a platform that is web friendlier. Firefox OS will have web developers becoming mobile developers overnight. That said, I wonder if those developers will understand the performance differences of a desktop vs a mobile device. If they don't, the performance of Firefox OS apps will be awful and Firefox will be blamed by the end user.
GFK_of_xmaspast 13y ago
Would you say that it's ok for it to come out of the closet now that Eich's gone.
sutro 13y ago
Copy-and-paste - great. Now how about reply all to MMS?
- 72deluxe 13y ago
  I'll just get my Siemens S65 out of the drawer and do that for you. (Yes, that is a phone from 10 years ago . . .) Seems continued reinvention of the wheel is popular! In fairness, it seems a great effort but I am not sure millions of OSes is a great idea, particularly not for developer effort.
- orkoden 13y ago
  That and >The ability to dial somebody directly from the call log. really baffled me.
deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
dscrd 13y ago
I'm having more and more doubts about mobile operating systems, or perhaps mobile UI paradigms where the user has unlimited freedom. I just tried, for experiment's sake, a dumbphone (Nokia 515) instead of my high-end large screen Android phone. And somehow I like it, not because of what it can do but mostly because what it cannot, and what kind of shackles it imposes on me.
briantakita 13y ago
This is why PhoneGap is relevant. One codebase, many platforms.
- orkoden 13y ago
  ... crappy experience everywhere.
  - briantakita 12y ago
    There are many apps that have a good UX that use Phone Gap. A good or bad UX has more to do with the programmer. But then... “It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it.” ― Upton Sinclair --- Edit: I removed by sarcastic response. I sometimes have kneejerk sarcasm to FUD now, since FUD is pretty much BS. The FUD & BS grows the more unquestioning people become. I believe native vs web is in a context where most people believe native is the only way to have a good UX. I see it as an opportunity to get ahead while the competition is asleep at the wheel. I'm not afraid of saying this because you won't believe me anyways ;-) I don't know why I'm explaining all of this. I really should just keep my mouth shut.

148 points by Garbage 13y ago

I'm really excited about this. I recently installed Firefox OS 1.4 on my cheapo ZTE Open (it came with 1.0), and the difference is huge. I thought I heard somewhere that they are shooting for 2.0 in July. Ignore everything this article says about the Geeksphone Revolution, though. Geeksphone has dropped the ball so many times with that device; they seem to be pretty incompetent, to be honest. Some owners have said that the Revolution's build of Firefox OS deviates pretty far from the official one -- who knows if you'll be able to get 2.0 on it easily.

aspidistra 13y ago
> I thought I heard somewhere that they are shooting for 2.0 in July. This CNET article says testing is "due to begin in late July": http://www.cnet.com/uk/news/new-features-and-appearance-for-firefox-os-2-0-emerge/ http://www.cnet.com/uk/news/new-features-and-appearance-for-...
chestnut-tree 13y ago
I'm excited by this too. I really hope Firefox OS gains traction. And the new screenshots look quite attractive. I just hope the Firefox OS team can deliver a unique OS with it's own distinctive design and interaction behaviour. One that doesn't clone behaviour from the existing (dominant) mobile OSes. Obviously there will be similarities with the other mobile OSes, but I think there is still scope for new ideas or even just simpler, easier implementations of common tasks.
Touche 13y ago
So what is the best phone to get with Firefox OS then? Even if that means flashing it yourself? Galaxy S 3 maybe? Nexus 4 or 5?
- fabrice_d 13y ago
  If you are not in a hurry, I would wait for the reference device (codename 'Flame') that will ship in the coming months. It's not as high end as a Nexus 5 but FxOS runs superbly there (it's a dual core with 4.5" screen).
  - Touche 13y ago
    Sweet, I've waited for 2 years so I can wait a bit longer.
  - w0ts0n 13y ago
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJZZvXzTtCo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJZZvXzTtCo
    - Groxx 13y ago
      A little context next time, please. Link is to a video of Firefox OS running on a Nexus 4.
- chuckharmston 13y ago
  Depending on your needs, there's a developer/reference device coming out soon: https://blog.mozilla.org/press/2014/02/developer-momentum-2/ https://blog.mozilla.org/press/2014/02/developer-momentum-2/
janjongboom 13y ago
Of course you can run 2.0 on it. You'll have to build Gecko with the Revolution patches for now, but they're open source. Other than that, the Keon and Peak (previous generation GeeksPhones) are the most hackable phones I ever had. Daily new builds of all versions, and easy to build custom Gecko for it. Guess they will do the same for the Revolution. (I have Keon, Peak and Revolution)
leke 13y ago
I found it too difficult to figure out how to install updates on the ZTE Open, so I have only installed the official 1.1 update.
gcb0 13y ago
1.0 to 1.4 and the diff is huge? cmon! The browser still have One option on the settings screen: clear cache. That's it. No extensions, no block js, no block or allow sites opening new windows... No
- anon4 13y ago
  Those options are confusing for users and can break sites and then users wonder "where is grumpy cat?" :^).
  - gcb0 13y ago
    if i wanted to be dumbed down i'd use google chorme :) now really, those options are not useless and just for confusion, and i will argue anyone who says otherwise. most options there are for usability. Yeah, for you being able to run add-ons is just a convenient way to download movies from streaming porn sites... but for me it may be a way to run stylish and use a high contrast theme so i can actually read the sites! ...and just the fact that i have to use add-ons+stylish instead of a simple user style file like most old browsers allowed is already absurd enough.

CodeGlitch 13y ago

As a huge Mozilla fan, I really do hope that Firefox OS takes off at least in a small way. I hear that the Firefox browser isn't being used so much on Android (people are tending to stick to the default Chrome browser). Mozilla really do need to get into the mobile market.

smacktoward 13y ago
Defaults are such powerful things. If Microsoft had managed to keep IE even marginally competent back in the Long Browser Winter, the window for alternative browsers on the desktop would have been much, much narrower.
- frou_dh 13y ago
  It's my hunch that a lot of Mac owners never give Safari a fair chance because their time in Windows land drummed in to them the notion that only dummies use the default browser.
  - wwweston 13y ago
    Doesn't help that it's not particularly compelling: http://www.zdnet.com/the-big-browser-benchmark-january-2013-edition-7000009776/ http://www.zdnet.com/the-big-browser-benchmark-january-2013-... http://www.techradar.com/us/news/software/applications/best-browser-which-should-you-be-using-932466 http://www.techradar.com/us/news/software/applications/best-... I use Safari daily, both to test and to visit several popular websites. My experience is that it's the first to somehow lock up with even a moderate number of windows/tabs open. There's a lot of things to like about OS X, but these days I don't think Apple's heart is in web-related stuff.
    - frou_dh 13y ago
      IMO it still has the best overall look and feel. Anecdotally, I very seldom see any freezes or crashes. Perhaps having plug-ins completely disabled makes the difference.
    - 13y ago

techwatching 13y ago

Is there any likelihood that FFOS will ever be more than a niche player? From where I'm sitting it looks like Android & iOS are the big players, Windows Phone is the plucky upstart, and then there's dark horses and complementary products like Tizen and so on. With all of the big brands out there, where does FFOS propose to carve out a niche?

dbpatterson 13y ago
They've always said they are aiming to target cheaper less powerful phones. Right now the bulk of the world is using cheap phones probably running Symbian or something similar. Whether they actually will be able to target that group is up for debate, but that's been their (stated) plan.
- chestnut-tree 13y ago
  "They've always said they are aiming to target cheaper less powerful phones" Android can increasingly be found on a lot of cheap, low-cost smartphones too - and there's a large established app marketplace. Firefox OS has a couple of potential advantages though. If the Firefox team can deliver on fast native performance for HTML apps, then development for the OS will be magnitudes easier (potentially) than developing for rival OSes. User privacy is another feature where Firefox OS could easily outshine its rivals. I'd love to see a Firefox OS laptop that goes head to head with ChromeOS for example (Google's OS tracks everything you do - even printing to your desktop printer).
  - TazeTSchnitzel 13y ago
    They're also targeting low-memory handsets which Android is excluding.
  - yulaow 13y ago
    I Think WP and FirefoxOS are the two big players in the low-end smartphone market, and the victory of one of those depends on that segment of phones. WindowsPhone8.1 already allow developers to use html5/js to create native apps (using winJS or any other framework) and the smartphone that sold most is the lumia520 -> the most low cost of all the wp gamma. I hope FirefoxOS will succeed, but considering that MS is trowing literally Billions to keep wp alive, I doubt it will be easy.

untilHellbanned 13y ago

Glad to see Mozilla pushing ahead, putting the Brendan Eich story behind them. I bought the ZTE Open and am rooting for them.

mattl 13y ago
I bought one as well. Can you root mine too, please?
adl 13y ago
I bought mine yesterday! It's not my daily driver, but I wanted to to test a few HTML5 Apps and to show my support to Mozilla and Firefox. at 70 US dollars (950 mexican pesos) it was a steal. My father needs a phone, (his 'feature' phone went dead a few weeks ago) and that little ZTE Open Firefox OS phone is a perfect replacement.

donbronson 13y ago

The mobile ecosystem could really use a platform that is web friendlier. Firefox OS will have web developers becoming mobile developers overnight. That said, I wonder if those developers will understand the performance differences of a desktop vs a mobile device. If they don't, the performance of Firefox OS apps will be awful and Firefox will be blamed by the end user.

GFK_of_xmaspast 13y ago

Would you say that it's ok for it to come out of the closet now that Eich's gone.

sutro 13y ago

Copy-and-paste - great. Now how about reply all to MMS?

72deluxe 13y ago
I'll just get my Siemens S65 out of the drawer and do that for you. (Yes, that is a phone from 10 years ago . . .) Seems continued reinvention of the wheel is popular! In fairness, it seems a great effort but I am not sure millions of OSes is a great idea, particularly not for developer effort.
orkoden 13y ago
That and >The ability to dial somebody directly from the call log. really baffled me.

deleted 13y ago

[deleted]

dscrd 13y ago

I'm having more and more doubts about mobile operating systems, or perhaps mobile UI paradigms where the user has unlimited freedom. I just tried, for experiment's sake, a dumbphone (Nokia 515) instead of my high-end large screen Android phone. And somehow I like it, not because of what it can do but mostly because what it cannot, and what kind of shackles it imposes on me.

briantakita 13y ago

This is why PhoneGap is relevant. One codebase, many platforms.

orkoden 13y ago
... crappy experience everywhere.
- briantakita 12y ago
  There are many apps that have a good UX that use Phone Gap. A good or bad UX has more to do with the programmer. But then... “It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it.” ― Upton Sinclair --- Edit: I removed by sarcastic response. I sometimes have kneejerk sarcasm to FUD now, since FUD is pretty much BS. The FUD & BS grows the more unquestioning people become. I believe native vs web is in a context where most people believe native is the only way to have a good UX. I see it as an opportunity to get ahead while the competition is asleep at the wheel. I'm not afraid of saying this because you won't believe me anyways ;-) I don't know why I'm explaining all of this. I really should just keep my mouth shut.