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I think it's important to ask not only whether somebody is a good ideological representative for a company, but also whether ousting them does us any good. The

I think it's important to ask not only whether somebody is a good ideological representative for a company, but also whether ousting them does us any good. The parties on both sides of the Rice/Dropbox debate have good arguments: * Ms. Rice has been a very important representative of a US administration that caused a lot of people to die in Iraq and elsewhere; * but she is not the only one in the government of that day, and many other (non-bullied) politicians are complicit as well; * and the current president has not shown much anti-torture sympathies either, yet him being branded a Democrat makes him much less of a target. I believe channeling energy to make Ms. Rice leave Dropbox solves nothing. Channeling the same outrage to make the elective system into a non-money-based race, to make the politicians accountable for what they promise before elections -- that may solve something. As a non-American, stating an opinion is about all I can help you with. Good luck!

thenmar 13y ago
How are those two things at all comparable? Changing the elective system might require nothing short of a constitutional amendment. At least voicing outrage about Rice/Dropbox raises awareness of privacy issues. You can't just say, "this one thing your doing isn't going to make a radical paradigm shifting difference, so you should just sit around until someone drops one of those in your lap."
- NotOscarWilde 13y ago
  > You can't just say "this one thing your doing isn't going to make a radical paradigm shifting difference, so you should just sit around until someone drops one of those in your lap." You're presenting a false dichotomy. If I am concerned with how my government handles privacy, shouldn't I take it up with the government? If I am concerned with how my goverment tortures and murders people, shouldn't I take it up with the goverment? I understand people like Ms. Rice are hard to prosecute because most of the government data that would serve as evidence are kept secret for a long time, if not forever. Isn't that just another point which you should take up with the government? Bullying some private citizen because you can't sue him through legal means seems hardly fair.
hindsightbias 13y ago
> solves nothing Sometimes, the best solution for bad behavior is making it have consequences. > promise before elections By that logic, Bush and Rice met their promises. They didn't say they wouldn't invade anyone, they said they wouldn't do nation building.
- NotOscarWilde 13y ago
  > Sometimes, the best solution for bad behavior is making it have consequences. You do realize this opinion aims to punish somebody because people can't touch her using the judicial system, right?
  - hindsightbias 13y ago
    We have to use the tools available to us, and the only one is the court of public opinion.
- mbillie1 13y ago
  > By that logic, Bush and Rice met their promises. They didn't say they wouldn't invade anyone, they said they wouldn't do nation building. I think NotOscarWilde is making a more general point about American politics here. There were many things Bush (and every other president in my lifetime) promised and failed to deliver on: lowering the debt, funding Pell grants, etc.
- splat 13y ago
  Bush actually campaigned on a "humble foreign policy" in the 2000 election. [1] [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_W._Bush_presidential_campaign,_2000#Platform http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_W._Bush_presidential_cam...
waps 13y ago
Have we learned nothing from the Mozilla incident ? Liberals do not forget. Liberals do not forgive. Not even the liberals donating against gay marriage themselves [1]. This happens when people get power and feel confident. Perfect ideological adherence is a basic condition, hurting and damaging valuable people the order of the day [2]. And what makes people attackable by these liberals ? Because Obama kills babies in their sleep using robots paid by taking 50% of your paycheck. That does not seem to damage him. And, it doesn't really matter what the answer to that question is, I'll hate people even more if I ever do find out I think. Enjoy it while it lasts, guys. Because it won't last. [1] http://blog.sfgate.com/techchron/2014/04/08/okcupid-ceo-once-donated-to-anti-gay-politician/ http://blog.sfgate.com/techchron/2014/04/08/okcupid-ceo-once... [2] http://www.bitstampede.com/2014/04/06/standing-strong-and-staying-mozillian/ http://www.bitstampede.com/2014/04/06/standing-strong-and-st...
prohisto 13y ago
That's why I don't trust her, she strikes me as strongly colluding and justifying. We cannot trust at least Bush Jr and every person involved in Obama's Administration. It's hard to believe that we did worse than Bush. That said, I am immediately investigating getting rid of dropbox.
wreegab 13y ago
> I believe channeling energy to make Ms. Rice leave Dropbox solves nothing To me, your reasoning reads as "accountability solves nothing". Boycotting Dropbox because of Ms. Rice empowers people to bring symbolic accountability on powerful individuals who have been shielded from being held properly accountable for their actions. So many examples of individuals threatened with decades in jail for really not much, while powerful elites are shielded against being held fully accountable for their roles in infinitely worst.
deveac 13y ago
>The parties on both sides of the Rice/Dropbox debate have good arguments: Ms. Rice has been a very important representative of a US administration that caused a lot of people to die in Iraq and elsewhere;* I actually think this part is besides the point. The problem for me is her leading role in an administration that performed extensive and expanding illegal surveillance of Americans. A cloud storage company welcoming her on to their board makes my hair stand on end.
wonderzombie 13y ago
other (non-bullied) politicians Is this how people are co-opting the term "bullied" now? To describe criticism of prominent people in public life? C'mon. Condoleeza Rice served in two presidential administrations. She is not some ingenue who accidentally stumbled into the spotlight.

thenmar 13y ago

How are those two things at all comparable? Changing the elective system might require nothing short of a constitutional amendment. At least voicing outrage about Rice/Dropbox raises awareness of privacy issues. You can't just say, "this one thing your doing isn't going to make a radical paradigm shifting difference, so you should just sit around until someone drops one of those in your lap."

NotOscarWilde 13y ago
> You can't just say "this one thing your doing isn't going to make a radical paradigm shifting difference, so you should just sit around until someone drops one of those in your lap." You're presenting a false dichotomy. If I am concerned with how my government handles privacy, shouldn't I take it up with the government? If I am concerned with how my goverment tortures and murders people, shouldn't I take it up with the goverment? I understand people like Ms. Rice are hard to prosecute because most of the government data that would serve as evidence are kept secret for a long time, if not forever. Isn't that just another point which you should take up with the government? Bullying some private citizen because you can't sue him through legal means seems hardly fair.

hindsightbias 13y ago

> solves nothing Sometimes, the best solution for bad behavior is making it have consequences. > promise before elections By that logic, Bush and Rice met their promises. They didn't say they wouldn't invade anyone, they said they wouldn't do nation building.

NotOscarWilde 13y ago
> Sometimes, the best solution for bad behavior is making it have consequences. You do realize this opinion aims to punish somebody because people can't touch her using the judicial system, right?
- hindsightbias 13y ago
  We have to use the tools available to us, and the only one is the court of public opinion.
mbillie1 13y ago
> By that logic, Bush and Rice met their promises. They didn't say they wouldn't invade anyone, they said they wouldn't do nation building. I think NotOscarWilde is making a more general point about American politics here. There were many things Bush (and every other president in my lifetime) promised and failed to deliver on: lowering the debt, funding Pell grants, etc.
splat 13y ago
Bush actually campaigned on a "humble foreign policy" in the 2000 election. [1] [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_W._Bush_presidential_campaign,_2000#Platform http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_W._Bush_presidential_cam...

waps 13y ago

Have we learned nothing from the Mozilla incident ? Liberals do not forget. Liberals do not forgive. Not even the liberals donating against gay marriage themselves [1]. This happens when people get power and feel confident. Perfect ideological adherence is a basic condition, hurting and damaging valuable people the order of the day [2]. And what makes people attackable by these liberals ? Because Obama kills babies in their sleep using robots paid by taking 50% of your paycheck. That does not seem to damage him. And, it doesn't really matter what the answer to that question is, I'll hate people even more if I ever do find out I think. Enjoy it while it lasts, guys. Because it won't last. [1] http://blog.sfgate.com/techchron/2014/04/08/okcupid-ceo-once-donated-to-anti-gay-politician/ http://blog.sfgate.com/techchron/2014/04/08/okcupid-ceo-once... [2] http://www.bitstampede.com/2014/04/06/standing-strong-and-staying-mozillian/ http://www.bitstampede.com/2014/04/06/standing-strong-and-st...

prohisto 13y ago

That's why I don't trust her, she strikes me as strongly colluding and justifying. We cannot trust at least Bush Jr and every person involved in Obama's Administration. It's hard to believe that we did worse than Bush. That said, I am immediately investigating getting rid of dropbox.

wreegab 13y ago

> I believe channeling energy to make Ms. Rice leave Dropbox solves nothing To me, your reasoning reads as "accountability solves nothing". Boycotting Dropbox because of Ms. Rice empowers people to bring symbolic accountability on powerful individuals who have been shielded from being held properly accountable for their actions. So many examples of individuals threatened with decades in jail for really not much, while powerful elites are shielded against being held fully accountable for their roles in infinitely worst.

deveac 13y ago

>The parties on both sides of the Rice/Dropbox debate have good arguments: Ms. Rice has been a very important representative of a US administration that caused a lot of people to die in Iraq and elsewhere;* I actually think this part is besides the point. The problem for me is her leading role in an administration that performed extensive and expanding illegal surveillance of Americans. A cloud storage company welcoming her on to their board makes my hair stand on end.

wonderzombie 13y ago

other (non-bullied) politicians Is this how people are co-opting the term "bullied" now? To describe criticism of prominent people in public life? C'mon. Condoleeza Rice served in two presidential administrations. She is not some ingenue who accidentally stumbled into the spotlight.