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What evidence do you have that there was fabricated evidence to justify the war? I'm not saying it wasn't faulty, but all the parties has closed door access to

What evidence do you have that there was fabricated evidence to justify the war? I'm not saying it wasn't faulty, but all the parties has closed door access to all the intelligence to make a decision. Just because we don't like the decision retroactively doesn't mean it was done on purpose, but rather due to mistakes being made. Not to say that's more comforting, just that they are different things.

hackinthebochs 13y ago
I don't have citations off hand, but from memory: 1. Cheney strongly pressured the CIA to discover a smoking gun for Iraq WMDs 2. CIA produced a document that they themselves questioned the authenticity of (the "yellow cake" purchase document) 3. Bush/Cheney ran with that, ignoring the caveats of the intelligence and trumpeting it as the smoking gun 4. Later discovered that the document was fabricated So while I haven't seen any evidence that they were personally involved in fabricating the evidence, they fabricated the narrative that justified the war by interfering with the intelligence gathering and vetting process and ignoring their recommendations. Claims that senators that voted for war are just as responsible because "they saw the same evidence" does not account for reality. Senators are shown evidence, they are not involved in the process of gathering and vetting that evidence. If this process is interfered with then the conclusions are worthless.
- aioprisan 13y ago
  > Senators are shown evidence, they are not involved in the process of gathering and vetting that evidence. If this process is interfered with then the conclusions are worthless. Senators can request additional information on the processes that is shares in closed doors. There is also the intelligence oversight committee that can investigate those actions and bring all the parties involved to actually testify. The fact that not many members of Congress questioned what was presented ultimately rests solely on their shoulders, since they can choose to request more information and open inquiries.
- aioprisan 13y ago
  > 1. Cheney strongly pressured the CIA to discover a smoking gun for Iraq WMDs Really? What is your source for that? Where in the Senate's report do you see that information? http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/search/pagedetails.action?browsePath=108/SRPT/%5b300%3b399%5d&granuleId=CRPT-108srpt301&packageId=CRPT-108srpt301 http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/search/pagedetails.action?browsePat...
  - hackinthebochs 13y ago
    http://www.commondreams.org/headlines03/0605-01.htm http://www.commondreams.org/headlines03/0605-01.htm (wholesale copy of a washingtonpost article) Also quite a few similar stories and first-hand accounts (of varying credibility) from a google search: https://www.google.com/search?q=cheney+pressure+iraq+intelligence& https://www.google.com/search?q=cheney+pressure+iraq+intelli...

hackinthebochs 13y ago

I don't have citations off hand, but from memory: 1. Cheney strongly pressured the CIA to discover a smoking gun for Iraq WMDs 2. CIA produced a document that they themselves questioned the authenticity of (the "yellow cake" purchase document) 3. Bush/Cheney ran with that, ignoring the caveats of the intelligence and trumpeting it as the smoking gun 4. Later discovered that the document was fabricated So while I haven't seen any evidence that they were personally involved in fabricating the evidence, they fabricated the narrative that justified the war by interfering with the intelligence gathering and vetting process and ignoring their recommendations. Claims that senators that voted for war are just as responsible because "they saw the same evidence" does not account for reality. Senators are shown evidence, they are not involved in the process of gathering and vetting that evidence. If this process is interfered with then the conclusions are worthless.

aioprisan 13y ago
> Senators are shown evidence, they are not involved in the process of gathering and vetting that evidence. If this process is interfered with then the conclusions are worthless. Senators can request additional information on the processes that is shares in closed doors. There is also the intelligence oversight committee that can investigate those actions and bring all the parties involved to actually testify. The fact that not many members of Congress questioned what was presented ultimately rests solely on their shoulders, since they can choose to request more information and open inquiries.
aioprisan 13y ago
> 1. Cheney strongly pressured the CIA to discover a smoking gun for Iraq WMDs Really? What is your source for that? Where in the Senate's report do you see that information? http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/search/pagedetails.action?browsePath=108/SRPT/%5b300%3b399%5d&granuleId=CRPT-108srpt301&packageId=CRPT-108srpt301 http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/search/pagedetails.action?browsePat...
- hackinthebochs 13y ago
  http://www.commondreams.org/headlines03/0605-01.htm http://www.commondreams.org/headlines03/0605-01.htm (wholesale copy of a washingtonpost article) Also quite a few similar stories and first-hand accounts (of varying credibility) from a google search: https://www.google.com/search?q=cheney+pressure+iraq+intelligence& https://www.google.com/search?q=cheney+pressure+iraq+intelli...