10 ms·

Of course French employees will still answer email after 6PM.

22 points by liam_boogar 12y ago

deleted 12y ago
[deleted]
purephase 12y ago
Starting at 9 and ending at 7? I take it the average French employee doesn't have children. Those hours mean that you'll rarely ever see them. At least during the work week.
- Totoradio 12y ago
  Usually in a couple, one will drop the kids at school in the morning and will do a 9.30 to 7.30 and the other will do the opposite and leave work early to pick up the kids. Single parents have to pay a babysitter to take care of that if they can, or have agreements with other parents/neighbours.
kjjw 12y ago
I've never kept office hours as long as 9am to 7.30pm. Too long in one location turns you into a monkey banging away random crap on a keyboard.
- wil421 12y ago
  The article said those hours include 2 hours of lunch and breaks during the day.
  - Totoradio 12y ago
    I am genuinely curious here, how does lunch work in an american 9 to 5? Everyone eats at their desk?
    - kohanz 12y ago
      In Canada, which is culturally very similar, the typical lunch break us under 1 hour. in some strict places it's 30 minutes. People rarely go home for lunch. usually they bring lunch to work, or buy it, and eat in a common area.
      - wil421 12y ago
        Exactly, I only know of one person who goes home for lunch but that is because he lives half a mile away.
    - molsongolden 12y ago
      Eat at your desk or stay later to make up for the time you took at lunch. It definitely depends on your industry and type of job but I don't know anyone outside of manufacturing/production/construction who actually works a strict 8-hour day.
    - wil421 12y ago
      No, we either go out to lunch or eat at our works cafe if they have one. But either way most people only take 30min - 1 hour for lunch tops. Unless someone is in from out of town everyone usually is back within an hour. At least this is how most of the companies I've worked for and most people I know. But some do choose to eat at their desk, but why? I sit there all day.
    - mynewwork 12y ago
      It's really 9 to 6 or 8 to 5. Most people take an hour for lunch (nearby restaurant, onsite cafeteria, brought from home).
  - kjjw 12y ago
    Yes I saw. I still think it is a long period of time to commit per day, even with the break in the middle. I find doing this sort of thing over a few weeks really starts to grind the psyche down. Not enough time spent on a mix of things is problem, I think. How people could do it as the norm is beyond me.
    - mcguire 12y ago
      The time on a work-day spent on work and work-related activities in the U.S. is 8.8 hours (http://www.bls.gov/tus/charts/chart1.txt http://www.bls.gov/tus/charts/chart1.txt). While I'm here, I'll just leave this: http://www.bls.gov/tus/charts/chart17.txt http://www.bls.gov/tus/charts/chart17.txt and this: http://www.bls.gov/tus/charts/chart11.txt http://www.bls.gov/tus/charts/chart11.txt.
      - kjjw 12y ago
        "Working".
- seszett 12y ago
  In France I have never worked after 6pm, even with two-hour lunch breaks (though I only have a one-hour break where I am now). I don't know of anyone working until 7pm. Almost everytime I read an article on rudebaguette.com, I feel like either I live in a foreign country, or they do.
furyg3 12y ago
Most western european countries get a lot of flak for policies which amount to "Employers have to treat their employees responsibly". Employers hired a person, not a robot. People have private lives, get sick, have relatives who get sick, have children, need vacations. Those problems become the problems of an employer when they hire someone. The government has a role in describing the norms and minimum requirements of this relationship. Most of these rules don't affect most working professionals, because they already work for employers who are responsible.
arebours 12y ago
Oh come now, I worked for several companies in my life and always included regular breaks and lunch in my 8h work schedule. Never seen anyone not doing so. I live and work in Poland.
- Totoradio 12y ago
  I live and work in France, and the part about 9 to 7 is real in Paris (I currently do 7 to 5 because I like to leave early). Elsewhere in France it would be closer to 8 to 6 I think.
  - purephase 12y ago
    Is the 2 hours lunch/break time sacrosanct? Meaning, pretty much everyone does it? I rarely take a long break during the working day, lunch is 30min at most. But, I like to leave a bit earlier to spend time with my daughter. Once she's in bed at night, I'll usually work for a few more hours though. So, I may not be a good example.
    - Totoradio 12y ago
      45min/1 hour lunch would be the norm, the rest of the 2 hours covers the coffee/cigarette/whatever non-work related breaks
- levosmetalo 12y ago
  That is one of the communist legacies that we should be thankful about. In Serbia I always worked 8 hours a day brutto, and that included ~1h of breaks for lunch, coffee chitchat and so. Now in Germany I work 8:45 because the company automatically deducts 0:30 for lunch and 0:15 for breakfast. So you see people staring at the walls in cantine and waiting for 30m to pass although they would rather eat for 10m and go home 20m earlier every day. And it's not like I do more now in 8d netto than I did before in 7h, it's just more exhausting and pointless. I guess without these German "employee protection rules" I would be allowed to clock out exact time spend eating and go home earlier, which would in turn make me same half an hour every day and in general make happier and more productive employee.
Xylakant 12y ago
There's some large companies in Germany that stopped delivering emails to most employees after 8 in the evening. All emails will get delivered in the morning. People that might receive alerts or important stuff are exempt, but the general employee is not. I think that's a reasonable approach - receiving work-related email in the evening keeps your mind on the work-problems and I do think people just need some downtime to relax.
vixen99 12y ago
"Trade Unions representing workers in the technical and digital sectors have won a legally-binding agreement prohibiting employees from contacting staff after work." http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2601526/Turn-BlackBerry-Bosses-banned-contacting-staff-work-hours-new-French-employment-law.html#ixzz2yV4UqTiO http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2601526/Turn-BlackBe... I guess those who would prefer the Daily Mail not to exist in its present form will enjoy rebutting this 'alleged news'.
hrktb 12y ago
To throw into the discussion, France chronically has a very high depression rate [0]. I don't have the exact numbers but there is correlation with high income, and generally speaking work related mental illness are not uncommon. The image of French people as lazy asses is about a half of the population perhaps. The other half[1] is in a different boat altogether. [0] http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-07-26/france-u-s-have-highest-depression-rates-in-world-study-suggests.html http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-07-26/france-u-s-have-hig... [1] wild guess
batbomb 12y ago
As someone who works with many French and Danish colleagues... If they didn't respond after 6pm ever, the turnaround for anything involving the west coast of the United States would be ridiculous. There would be no chance for any real-time communication. For example, I wake up, see email at 8:30am asking me to do something. Not all information is provided, so I fire an email back at 9am/6pm in France. Oops, too late. They don't respond til 10am their time, which happens to be 1am here, and I already fell asleep.
vonnik 12y ago
Why do we even care about France? Why does it make so much more noise than the UK and Germany, where tech is really flourishing? France has been in gentle decline since Napoleon. It hasn't won a war in 200 years. It has given up much of its power as a nation state to Brussels and Berlin. Its citizens are luddites and its elite have created an economy that crushes young people. I speak as someone who lived there for many years. France talks big, but little happens there.

22 points by liam_boogar 12y ago

deleted 12y ago

[deleted]

Starting at 9 and ending at 7? I take it the average French employee doesn't have children. Those hours mean that you'll rarely ever see them. At least during the work week.

Totoradio 12y ago
Usually in a couple, one will drop the kids at school in the morning and will do a 9.30 to 7.30 and the other will do the opposite and leave work early to pick up the kids. Single parents have to pay a babysitter to take care of that if they can, or have agreements with other parents/neighbours.

kjjw 12y ago

I've never kept office hours as long as 9am to 7.30pm. Too long in one location turns you into a monkey banging away random crap on a keyboard.

wil421 12y ago
The article said those hours include 2 hours of lunch and breaks during the day.
- Totoradio 12y ago
  I am genuinely curious here, how does lunch work in an american 9 to 5? Everyone eats at their desk?
  - kohanz 12y ago
    In Canada, which is culturally very similar, the typical lunch break us under 1 hour. in some strict places it's 30 minutes. People rarely go home for lunch. usually they bring lunch to work, or buy it, and eat in a common area.
    - wil421 12y ago
      Exactly, I only know of one person who goes home for lunch but that is because he lives half a mile away.
  - molsongolden 12y ago
    Eat at your desk or stay later to make up for the time you took at lunch. It definitely depends on your industry and type of job but I don't know anyone outside of manufacturing/production/construction who actually works a strict 8-hour day.
  - wil421 12y ago
    No, we either go out to lunch or eat at our works cafe if they have one. But either way most people only take 30min - 1 hour for lunch tops. Unless someone is in from out of town everyone usually is back within an hour. At least this is how most of the companies I've worked for and most people I know. But some do choose to eat at their desk, but why? I sit there all day.
  - mynewwork 12y ago
    It's really 9 to 6 or 8 to 5. Most people take an hour for lunch (nearby restaurant, onsite cafeteria, brought from home).
- kjjw 12y ago
  Yes I saw. I still think it is a long period of time to commit per day, even with the break in the middle. I find doing this sort of thing over a few weeks really starts to grind the psyche down. Not enough time spent on a mix of things is problem, I think. How people could do it as the norm is beyond me.
  - mcguire 12y ago
    The time on a work-day spent on work and work-related activities in the U.S. is 8.8 hours (http://www.bls.gov/tus/charts/chart1.txt http://www.bls.gov/tus/charts/chart1.txt). While I'm here, I'll just leave this: http://www.bls.gov/tus/charts/chart17.txt http://www.bls.gov/tus/charts/chart17.txt and this: http://www.bls.gov/tus/charts/chart11.txt http://www.bls.gov/tus/charts/chart11.txt.
    - kjjw 12y ago
      "Working".
seszett 12y ago
In France I have never worked after 6pm, even with two-hour lunch breaks (though I only have a one-hour break where I am now). I don't know of anyone working until 7pm. Almost everytime I read an article on rudebaguette.com, I feel like either I live in a foreign country, or they do.

furyg3 12y ago

Most western european countries get a lot of flak for policies which amount to "Employers have to treat their employees responsibly". Employers hired a person, not a robot. People have private lives, get sick, have relatives who get sick, have children, need vacations. Those problems become the problems of an employer when they hire someone. The government has a role in describing the norms and minimum requirements of this relationship. Most of these rules don't affect most working professionals, because they already work for employers who are responsible.

arebours 12y ago

Oh come now, I worked for several companies in my life and always included regular breaks and lunch in my 8h work schedule. Never seen anyone not doing so. I live and work in Poland.

Totoradio 12y ago
I live and work in France, and the part about 9 to 7 is real in Paris (I currently do 7 to 5 because I like to leave early). Elsewhere in France it would be closer to 8 to 6 I think.
- purephase 12y ago
  Is the 2 hours lunch/break time sacrosanct? Meaning, pretty much everyone does it? I rarely take a long break during the working day, lunch is 30min at most. But, I like to leave a bit earlier to spend time with my daughter. Once she's in bed at night, I'll usually work for a few more hours though. So, I may not be a good example.
  - Totoradio 12y ago
    45min/1 hour lunch would be the norm, the rest of the 2 hours covers the coffee/cigarette/whatever non-work related breaks
levosmetalo 12y ago
That is one of the communist legacies that we should be thankful about. In Serbia I always worked 8 hours a day brutto, and that included ~1h of breaks for lunch, coffee chitchat and so. Now in Germany I work 8:45 because the company automatically deducts 0:30 for lunch and 0:15 for breakfast. So you see people staring at the walls in cantine and waiting for 30m to pass although they would rather eat for 10m and go home 20m earlier every day. And it's not like I do more now in 8d netto than I did before in 7h, it's just more exhausting and pointless. I guess without these German "employee protection rules" I would be allowed to clock out exact time spend eating and go home earlier, which would in turn make me same half an hour every day and in general make happier and more productive employee.

Xylakant 12y ago

There's some large companies in Germany that stopped delivering emails to most employees after 8 in the evening. All emails will get delivered in the morning. People that might receive alerts or important stuff are exempt, but the general employee is not. I think that's a reasonable approach - receiving work-related email in the evening keeps your mind on the work-problems and I do think people just need some downtime to relax.

vixen99 12y ago

"Trade Unions representing workers in the technical and digital sectors have won a legally-binding agreement prohibiting employees from contacting staff after work." http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2601526/Turn-BlackBerry-Bosses-banned-contacting-staff-work-hours-new-French-employment-law.html#ixzz2yV4UqTiO http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2601526/Turn-BlackBe... I guess those who would prefer the Daily Mail not to exist in its present form will enjoy rebutting this 'alleged news'.

hrktb 12y ago

To throw into the discussion, France chronically has a very high depression rate [0]. I don't have the exact numbers but there is correlation with high income, and generally speaking work related mental illness are not uncommon. The image of French people as lazy asses is about a half of the population perhaps. The other half[1] is in a different boat altogether. [0] http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-07-26/france-u-s-have-highest-depression-rates-in-world-study-suggests.html http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-07-26/france-u-s-have-hig... [1] wild guess

batbomb 12y ago

As someone who works with many French and Danish colleagues... If they didn't respond after 6pm ever, the turnaround for anything involving the west coast of the United States would be ridiculous. There would be no chance for any real-time communication. For example, I wake up, see email at 8:30am asking me to do something. Not all information is provided, so I fire an email back at 9am/6pm in France. Oops, too late. They don't respond til 10am their time, which happens to be 1am here, and I already fell asleep.

vonnik 12y ago

Why do we even care about France? Why does it make so much more noise than the UK and Germany, where tech is really flourishing? France has been in gentle decline since Napoleon. It hasn't won a war in 200 years. It has given up much of its power as a nation state to Brussels and Berlin. Its citizens are luddites and its elite have created an economy that crushes young people. I speak as someone who lived there for many years. France talks big, but little happens there.