5 ms·

I’ve Sent This Over 100 Times to Recruiters looking for .Net devs

40 points by JeremyMorgan 13y ago

moondev 13y ago
> switched from being a .NET Developer to a Software Developer so brave!
- JeremyMorgan 13y ago
  I think it's a snarky way of saying "someone that decided to take one of the other 10,000 different options to develop available out there". I love me some .Net but you'd be silly to ignore the alternatives and many .Net devs do.
  - jader201 13y ago
    I don't ignore the alternatives, but I certainly don't have the time to dive into every language of the month so that I can add them to my tool belt "just in case". And, of course, even if I had them in my tool belt, I don't know too many companies that will pay what I'm making as a .NET developer to work in a language I've picked up on the side. If there's another way, I'd love to hear about it.
    - JeremyMorgan 13y ago
      No, it's basically the same route I'm on I put more effort into sharpening my .Net skills than any other. But if I see something that another technology will do I try to integrate it just to get familiar (like Node for instance). The ASP is trying to hard to integrate other stuff into it, and I think few people deep dive into .Net and Rails, node, etc combined but it's a definite strength to have some familiarity.
ctidd 13y ago
Your complaint is that you hear about too many opportunities in the "career-limiting" area of .NET development? No .NET developers are looking for work? Sounds like anyone wanting to be employed should get familiar with .NET. Or do you just disagree with the job title having a language in it?
- JeremyMorgan 13y ago
  I'm not the author, just the submitter. But he pretty much nailed the situation in Portland right now. If you're a .Net developer and you're any good there is tons of work, for great pay. But there is a huge OSS startup scene running parallel in this city that probably better represents where the future of the industry will go eventually. If you bet all your chips on the .Net horse you may not like it later down the road.
  - deciplex 13y ago
    I'm not going to work for any place that hires software developers based on which language they are most familiar with at this moment. As though a competent developer can't pick up a new language in a few weeks.
    - StefanWallin 13y ago
      Well it isn't just the language that would be of interest, it's the APIs and the existing libraries that are domainspecific that takes time learning. I find it very reasonable for recruiters to look for people knowledgeable in the programming language(s) that their clients utilize in their production since those developers will most often be quicker in their job.
      - deciplex 13y ago
        All else being equal, sure.
    - JeremyMorgan 13y ago
      Sure, you can pick up C# in a few weeks, but there's no way to become a competent .Net developer in 3 weeks. It's not that it's difficult to learn, but there is so much to learn. In 3 weeks you may be able to drag and drop and autogenerate enough stuff but serious development would take much longer for someone with no experience. The same could be said about Ruby, Python, Node, etc.
  - selimthegrim 13y ago
edent 13y ago
I went into a clothes shop the other day, and asked the manager if they had any red velvet jackets. "No, but it's funny," said the manager, "you're the 100th person to ask me that - but I keep telling you people, there's simply no demand for them!"
- lsc 13y ago
  seems like this is a lack of supply, not a lack of demand. It would be more like walking into the tailor and asking for a red velvet jacket, and the tailor responding "Wow, you are the tenth customer today asking me for a red velvet jacket. But, I don't make red velvet jackets, because I don't have the skills to work with velvet. In fact, I don't know of any local reputable tailors that are skilled with velvet who are not already under contract." "Besides that, I'm an expert, and I think velvet is an inferior materiel. I am quite skilled with silk, and I could make you an excellent silk jacket. Silk is far more stylish and functional than velvet, anyhow." "I know another very skilled leather-worker I could refer you to if you would like a jacket made of leather, but if you want velvet? I just can't help you" Fundamentally, I think "I don't like working with technology X" is a fundamentally reasonable position to take. People have preferences. Sometimes people are willing to take less money in order to meet those preferences. "I don't have experience working with technology X" I think is an even more reasonable position to take.
  - Robin_Message 13y ago
    I guess what people are saying is that red velvet is so unfashionable they'd rather get a job in a factory working green leather day in, day out, than touch it. Aside: If programming languages were coloured jackets? C - black leather, with studs. C++ - black leather, with studs, on the inside. Perl - there seem to be fourteen armholes. And seven zips. It's light blue, but in some places the paint is flaking and many other colours show through. Oh, and there is no head hole. Its wearers insist it gets things done just fine and is very flexible. Everyone looks at them weirdly. Java - a hospital gown. The bare minimum to cover you, mostly designed around the convenience of others. You can buy a factory to make them, but the customisations don't seem to make any difference. Python - A comfortable denim jacket of average size. It is straightforward to put on. Most people say it fits them perfectly, although a few people say it chafes. Ruby - every time you move this jacket, it changes slightly. Putting your arms into the sleeves causes new sleeves that would fit better to appear underneath the existing ones. If you tap it, you inexplicable end up with two jackets. Haskell - a large tartan straitjacket. When you try to put it on, you find yourself in a new jacket, and the original jacket is still in the wardrobe. The jackets are connected by an unbreakable thread of modal. When you take it off, you find yourself looking at yourself still wearing the jacket. You are connected to your other self by a thread of modal. Allegedly you can do anything without errors whilst wearing a Haskell jacket; you suspect the wearers are simply crazy. Go - A tweed blazer with leather arm patches. It can be split into multiple gackets, which can be worn by multiple people. When wearing your gacket, you can communicate with anyone in another of your gackets, but only one of you can move at once. C# - part of a family of colourful jackets. The fit well, and are suitable for all formal occasions. However, they are not available outside the USA. Knock-offs are available in the rest of the world, but only in shades of grey. Fortran - a powered exo-skeleton. It is old, slightly rusty, uncomfortable, unfashionable, and the wrong choice for almost all occasions. However, whilst wearing it you can run as fast as Usain Bolt. Javascript - a quite ugly mustard yellow suit jacket. It almost looks like its been cut out of something else, a sofa possibly. If you put your hand in a pocket without declaring your intention to do so first, you find other people's stuff in your pocket, and your stuff gone. They are unreasonably popular due to a historical quirk in the law that requires you to wear one of these jackets when visiting a stranger's house. Lisp - a bolt of woven yak wool, dyed saffron. Clojure - a bolt of woven yak wool, dyed saffron. It also comes with some smaller pieces of wool dyed different colours, and a direct phone line to a hospital. If you read enough tutorials online, you can assemble a comfortable and useful jacket, although you often have to copy the jacket before you can modify it. (many edits as I'm on a roll :-) )
bowlofpetunias 13y ago
And people wonder why developers are not being treated like mature professionals... This kind of juvenile "OMG, I wouldn't want to be seen dead in such off-brand sneakers" attitude belongs in a school playground. Meanwhile there are probably many thousands of .NET devs making a good living in a nice job with a pleasant (albeit somewhat conventional) work environment and making enough money to take care of the things that really matter to them (family, kids). And they couldn't care less about being a cool Node.js or Ruby developer. No, you won't run in the them that much. They hang out with the grown-ups.
- louhike 13y ago
  And I am so disappointed to see that on the front page. I'm a young .NET developper. I will have to find a new job in a few months. I really like Node.js so I would like to find a job on it but I will never refuse a job just because it is .NET development. First, it is a nice technology to work with even if it is linked to prioritary code. Second, it is not the technology which makes a job interesting. It has more to do with the product, the company and the team. Third, it might a good bet to work on a technology which is not the current cool kid on the block. .NET is used in a lot of places so we will have a lot of job offers with few developers. In this context you can manage to get a nice salary and you won't be treated like meat. I agree with you we have a problem with this fashion of technologies. But like you said, and thanks to that, there are still a lot of developpers who do not fall on this trap.
adron 13y ago
Seriously Hacker News needs a 'cool comment' button.
pnathan 13y ago
It would be an interesting 'hack' to put up a set of LinkedIn profiles in, say, Seattle (where I live), each essentially the same but in the tech stacks listed: C#, Java, C++, Ruby, PHP, and Haskell. Then, track the recruiter spam as well as the kind of positions/salaries offered. I think it would violate LinkedIn TOS to do this, as well as be kind of douchey to the well-intentioned and hopeful recruiters. So I won't. But still.... be interesting. :)
- collyw 13y ago
  Its not like recruiters would avoid a reverse situation to get you on their books by saying there is high paying job looking for your skillset, when there is not.
venomsnake 13y ago
I love .NET and C# and will gladly write again. I had probably 3-4 years experience. With one twist - no web stuff. It is awesome for everything else.
andrewstuart 13y ago
There is nothing quite so laugh out loud hilarious as recruiter baiting on HN. Recruiters are easy targets, everyone thinks they suck and there's so many clever ways to point out their cluelessness. Even now I'm chuckling to myself at how thigh-slappingly hilarious this is and how it points out that you are a smart developer and recruiters are foolish as fish. Magnificent humour and not in the slightest dogmatic, pompous, superior or neckbeardish. The clever digs at Microsoft oriented developers have certainly shown you to be one step ahead of them in the cleverness stakes. Well done sir! I wait with bated breath for the next clever and superior person on HN to show how much smarter they are than recruiters.
- JeremyMorgan 13y ago
  This is hilarious, but I hope we can get back to real HN submissions. I can't wait to see the next Something.js that does something jquery already does or check out a new something.io startup that has an API where you can access all your APIs.. in one place! But really another NSA or Heartbleed article would be much better. Hey have you heard of Heartbleed yet?
deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
- aaronbrethorst 13y ago
  > Maybe if said recruiters' clients or employers were willing to look past the US borders and into the realm of remote working, they wouldn't have half the problems they have right now. They would have an entire new set of problems, but not the ones they currently face. FTFY.
PhasmaFelis 13y ago
I can't quite figure out if this is a genuine and reasonable reply, or if he's being a pedantic ass. ".NET developer? Oh no no no! I'm just a software developer who also knows .NET. Please resubmit your offer, replacing all instances of the phrase '.NET developer' with 'software developer'."
- lugg 13y ago
  I'm erring on the side of pedantic twat. But I'm just a php developer so what do I know.
Dakuan 13y ago
I do feel the authors pain as a recently liberated .NET developer. I can either remove a third of my experience from my linkedIn profile, or suffer a deluge of approaches from people trying to fill .NET roles. That said, the article (and many of the comments here) are very US centric. In the UK, there are loads of .NET developers and even more .NET jobs. They often pay pretty well too.
valdiorn 13y ago
Honest question, what do you think is wrong with .NET? C# is my favorite language and I'm learning F# at the moment, which I think just as good (but very different). Microsoft have done a shitload to evolve the platform in the last decade as well. So why all the sarcastic joking and hate?
- BSousa 13y ago
  Because it is cool to take the piss at .net developers around here! Most coming from young folks that have only been working on the 'next facebook' with go/node.js/rails to understand there is a big and very profitable world out there that runs on more mature stacks/languages. But hey, doing CAD/Financial Modelling/Insurance/etc software isn't shiny and something to brag on the next hackathon for hacker cred right?
  - guyprovost 13y ago
    That, my friend is well said. Agreed!
- CmonDev 13y ago
  Besides most of the stack is open source now. At least the bits you realistically would be willing to contribute to.
- jonheller 13y ago
  I've never seen a qualified response to this question. .NET is by Microsoft. It's Windows based. It's been around for a long time. It didn't introduce any new paradigms, and I'm guessing isn't used by a single startup in California. But it's fast, it's solid, and from my experience, there are more well paying, reliable opportunities in it than with any other language. Honestly, I'd rather be spending my time learning Node or Ruby or heck even sharpening my PHP skills. But I enjoy .NET and would much rather work at the company I'm currently at, in a position I like with people I respect, than jump ship just for a non .NET opportunity.
  - jconley 13y ago
BenefitOfDoubt 13y ago
>Even though I’m fairly well connected in Portland, Seattle, Vancouver (BC) and even San Francisco it is rare for me to meet someone who wants to do pure .NET Development. If there is I’ll connect them with you. However if you know a company that is porting away from .NET, building greenfield applications in Node.js, Ruby on Rails or other open source stacks I have a few software developers that might be interested. You may consider yourself somewhat well connected in startup culture circles perhaps but even though that may be the noisiest and most visible, it is actually quite in the minority in actual numbers of software devs in our country. Enterprise (you know the companies that actually make our economy churn) like banks, retail chains, Intel, HP, ETC. corporate America, government, military. ETC) is where most of the .NET devs seem to be. Trust me, there are plenty of them, even in Portland. (hate to break it to you but you sound like kind of a big fish in a small pond) Do you think that you know better than veteran recruiters how many .NET devs are in certain areas (some of which you don't even live in?). If .NET devs were that scarce in these areas as you seem to conclude, I really doubt that recruiters would even bother advertising for them. Also, if they were this scarce, corporations would be forced to pay exorbitant amounts of money for them or switch to another technology (simple logic tells us this). This is almost akin to the disconnect of the hippie culture of the 60s. You had the hippies who knew their culture and circle of people, then you had the majority of (albeit less visible) Americans who were working 9-5 and raising families while keeping the country actually functioning. A lot of hippies didn't even realize that much existed outside of their limited perception (I speak from experience). Your ignorance may be overlooked by many here on HN because many share the same culture and ignorance as you, but to the 9-5 serious family/career corporate generation - you look like a fool. Not just because of your blind ignorance, but also your petulance.
zamalek 13y ago
Dear Enterprise/Microsoft Hater 128 345 501, Do understand that we were simply asking for a developer who understands the .Net platform; and in no way labeling the developers - heck, it's what they call themselves! We appreciate that there is a lot of FUD surrounding various languages but as we all know FUD is unfounded hatred and hence theoretical; where the conscious and deliberate action of excluding yourself from an entire market is a literal limiting action. We are grateful to hear that your community of contacts have this trend in terms of development technologies; as most developer communities tend to. You should meet some of the COBOL folks I hooked up with work, they work once a month and drive Ferraris - such a pity COBOL is an evil enterprise language; it's not even cool like Javascript is! Yours, Scummy Corporate Recruiter 1
- deciplex 13y ago
  Hey if I'm on any of your call lists can you remove me please? Cheers.
  - zamalek 13y ago
    I'm not an actual recruiter, was just roleplaying there; at my gig we don't really need recruiters - in fact we usually have problems with developers that they send our way (we have been forced to use them a few times to match our growth). Our best talent comes from word of mouth. I'm not sure they do a good job (for both the employer and employee) no matter what the language. I was merely pointing out the irony in the post.
bosch 13y ago
Am I the only one who thinks that sounds pompous? I can understand maybe being spammed from recruiters, but replying like this just brings you down to their level. It also makes software devs seem like jackasses. That would be the case if you were trashing Java or Python or any other language. I just don't really see the point of replying like this.
ksk 13y ago
People may or may not have good reasons to dislike technologies. I'm sure people have their reasons for disliking .NET just like they do with Java or any other technology. From just a generic statement - its hard to know either way. I actively dislike all current web app frameworks. The SaaS trend is worrying IMO because it seems to be the only viable way that startups can make money these days. I rarely see any startup selling an actual software product. In my view, you take a rich client application - throw in memory bloat, CPU bloat, reduce the responsiveness, add in some downtime and you get a webapp. By the very fact that all web apps are limited by client apps (the browser in most cases), I don't see any reason to settle for a 'second-class' experience.
CmonDev 13y ago
Short version "Real world, please care about our hipster frameworks that are using languages older than some enterprise ones. We don't want to use Xamarin to re-use maximum code while retaining native performance and languages that don't suck; we don't want to use Unity3d to be able to quickly prototype at low cost and hight quality. Please pigeon-hole Node.js in every freaking domain, because everything is an IO throughput problem plus you get to use a crappy language not just on client side but on server side as well!".
WWLink 13y ago
You know what, if they are looking for a developer that can hit the ground running with .NET and make some great stuff, I'm not that guy. If they're looking to do some .NET projects and want some developers that are good to pick it up and try it. I'd do that. How do you get into that situation? Is it even possible? I hear and see the opposites - companies with absolutely no interest in training, and companies that love training.

40 points by JeremyMorgan 13y ago

moondev 13y ago

> switched from being a .NET Developer to a Software Developer so brave!

JeremyMorgan 13y ago
I think it's a snarky way of saying "someone that decided to take one of the other 10,000 different options to develop available out there". I love me some .Net but you'd be silly to ignore the alternatives and many .Net devs do.
- jader201 13y ago
  I don't ignore the alternatives, but I certainly don't have the time to dive into every language of the month so that I can add them to my tool belt "just in case". And, of course, even if I had them in my tool belt, I don't know too many companies that will pay what I'm making as a .NET developer to work in a language I've picked up on the side. If there's another way, I'd love to hear about it.
  - JeremyMorgan 13y ago
    No, it's basically the same route I'm on I put more effort into sharpening my .Net skills than any other. But if I see something that another technology will do I try to integrate it just to get familiar (like Node for instance). The ASP is trying to hard to integrate other stuff into it, and I think few people deep dive into .Net and Rails, node, etc combined but it's a definite strength to have some familiarity.

ctidd 13y ago

Your complaint is that you hear about too many opportunities in the "career-limiting" area of .NET development? No .NET developers are looking for work? Sounds like anyone wanting to be employed should get familiar with .NET. Or do you just disagree with the job title having a language in it?

JeremyMorgan 13y ago
I'm not the author, just the submitter. But he pretty much nailed the situation in Portland right now. If you're a .Net developer and you're any good there is tons of work, for great pay. But there is a huge OSS startup scene running parallel in this city that probably better represents where the future of the industry will go eventually. If you bet all your chips on the .Net horse you may not like it later down the road.
- deciplex 13y ago
  I'm not going to work for any place that hires software developers based on which language they are most familiar with at this moment. As though a competent developer can't pick up a new language in a few weeks.
  - StefanWallin 13y ago
    Well it isn't just the language that would be of interest, it's the APIs and the existing libraries that are domainspecific that takes time learning. I find it very reasonable for recruiters to look for people knowledgeable in the programming language(s) that their clients utilize in their production since those developers will most often be quicker in their job.
    - deciplex 13y ago
      All else being equal, sure.
  - JeremyMorgan 13y ago
    Sure, you can pick up C# in a few weeks, but there's no way to become a competent .Net developer in 3 weeks. It's not that it's difficult to learn, but there is so much to learn. In 3 weeks you may be able to drag and drop and autogenerate enough stuff but serious development would take much longer for someone with no experience. The same could be said about Ruby, Python, Node, etc.
- selimthegrim 13y ago

edent 13y ago

I went into a clothes shop the other day, and asked the manager if they had any red velvet jackets. "No, but it's funny," said the manager, "you're the 100th person to ask me that - but I keep telling you people, there's simply no demand for them!"

lsc 13y ago
seems like this is a lack of supply, not a lack of demand. It would be more like walking into the tailor and asking for a red velvet jacket, and the tailor responding "Wow, you are the tenth customer today asking me for a red velvet jacket. But, I don't make red velvet jackets, because I don't have the skills to work with velvet. In fact, I don't know of any local reputable tailors that are skilled with velvet who are not already under contract." "Besides that, I'm an expert, and I think velvet is an inferior materiel. I am quite skilled with silk, and I could make you an excellent silk jacket. Silk is far more stylish and functional than velvet, anyhow." "I know another very skilled leather-worker I could refer you to if you would like a jacket made of leather, but if you want velvet? I just can't help you" Fundamentally, I think "I don't like working with technology X" is a fundamentally reasonable position to take. People have preferences. Sometimes people are willing to take less money in order to meet those preferences. "I don't have experience working with technology X" I think is an even more reasonable position to take.
- Robin_Message 13y ago
  I guess what people are saying is that red velvet is so unfashionable they'd rather get a job in a factory working green leather day in, day out, than touch it. Aside: If programming languages were coloured jackets? C - black leather, with studs. C++ - black leather, with studs, on the inside. Perl - there seem to be fourteen armholes. And seven zips. It's light blue, but in some places the paint is flaking and many other colours show through. Oh, and there is no head hole. Its wearers insist it gets things done just fine and is very flexible. Everyone looks at them weirdly. Java - a hospital gown. The bare minimum to cover you, mostly designed around the convenience of others. You can buy a factory to make them, but the customisations don't seem to make any difference. Python - A comfortable denim jacket of average size. It is straightforward to put on. Most people say it fits them perfectly, although a few people say it chafes. Ruby - every time you move this jacket, it changes slightly. Putting your arms into the sleeves causes new sleeves that would fit better to appear underneath the existing ones. If you tap it, you inexplicable end up with two jackets. Haskell - a large tartan straitjacket. When you try to put it on, you find yourself in a new jacket, and the original jacket is still in the wardrobe. The jackets are connected by an unbreakable thread of modal. When you take it off, you find yourself looking at yourself still wearing the jacket. You are connected to your other self by a thread of modal. Allegedly you can do anything without errors whilst wearing a Haskell jacket; you suspect the wearers are simply crazy. Go - A tweed blazer with leather arm patches. It can be split into multiple gackets, which can be worn by multiple people. When wearing your gacket, you can communicate with anyone in another of your gackets, but only one of you can move at once. C# - part of a family of colourful jackets. The fit well, and are suitable for all formal occasions. However, they are not available outside the USA. Knock-offs are available in the rest of the world, but only in shades of grey. Fortran - a powered exo-skeleton. It is old, slightly rusty, uncomfortable, unfashionable, and the wrong choice for almost all occasions. However, whilst wearing it you can run as fast as Usain Bolt. Javascript - a quite ugly mustard yellow suit jacket. It almost looks like its been cut out of something else, a sofa possibly. If you put your hand in a pocket without declaring your intention to do so first, you find other people's stuff in your pocket, and your stuff gone. They are unreasonably popular due to a historical quirk in the law that requires you to wear one of these jackets when visiting a stranger's house. Lisp - a bolt of woven yak wool, dyed saffron. Clojure - a bolt of woven yak wool, dyed saffron. It also comes with some smaller pieces of wool dyed different colours, and a direct phone line to a hospital. If you read enough tutorials online, you can assemble a comfortable and useful jacket, although you often have to copy the jacket before you can modify it. (many edits as I'm on a roll :-) )

bowlofpetunias 13y ago

And people wonder why developers are not being treated like mature professionals... This kind of juvenile "OMG, I wouldn't want to be seen dead in such off-brand sneakers" attitude belongs in a school playground. Meanwhile there are probably many thousands of .NET devs making a good living in a nice job with a pleasant (albeit somewhat conventional) work environment and making enough money to take care of the things that really matter to them (family, kids). And they couldn't care less about being a cool Node.js or Ruby developer. No, you won't run in the them that much. They hang out with the grown-ups.

louhike 13y ago
And I am so disappointed to see that on the front page. I'm a young .NET developper. I will have to find a new job in a few months. I really like Node.js so I would like to find a job on it but I will never refuse a job just because it is .NET development. First, it is a nice technology to work with even if it is linked to prioritary code. Second, it is not the technology which makes a job interesting. It has more to do with the product, the company and the team. Third, it might a good bet to work on a technology which is not the current cool kid on the block. .NET is used in a lot of places so we will have a lot of job offers with few developers. In this context you can manage to get a nice salary and you won't be treated like meat. I agree with you we have a problem with this fashion of technologies. But like you said, and thanks to that, there are still a lot of developpers who do not fall on this trap.

adron 13y ago

Seriously Hacker News needs a 'cool comment' button.

pnathan 13y ago

It would be an interesting 'hack' to put up a set of LinkedIn profiles in, say, Seattle (where I live), each essentially the same but in the tech stacks listed: C#, Java, C++, Ruby, PHP, and Haskell. Then, track the recruiter spam as well as the kind of positions/salaries offered. I think it would violate LinkedIn TOS to do this, as well as be kind of douchey to the well-intentioned and hopeful recruiters. So I won't. But still.... be interesting. :)

collyw 13y ago
Its not like recruiters would avoid a reverse situation to get you on their books by saying there is high paying job looking for your skillset, when there is not.

venomsnake 13y ago

I love .NET and C# and will gladly write again. I had probably 3-4 years experience. With one twist - no web stuff. It is awesome for everything else.

andrewstuart 13y ago

There is nothing quite so laugh out loud hilarious as recruiter baiting on HN. Recruiters are easy targets, everyone thinks they suck and there's so many clever ways to point out their cluelessness. Even now I'm chuckling to myself at how thigh-slappingly hilarious this is and how it points out that you are a smart developer and recruiters are foolish as fish. Magnificent humour and not in the slightest dogmatic, pompous, superior or neckbeardish. The clever digs at Microsoft oriented developers have certainly shown you to be one step ahead of them in the cleverness stakes. Well done sir! I wait with bated breath for the next clever and superior person on HN to show how much smarter they are than recruiters.

JeremyMorgan 13y ago
This is hilarious, but I hope we can get back to real HN submissions. I can't wait to see the next Something.js that does something jquery already does or check out a new something.io startup that has an API where you can access all your APIs.. in one place! But really another NSA or Heartbleed article would be much better. Hey have you heard of Heartbleed yet?

deleted 13y ago

[deleted]

aaronbrethorst 13y ago
> Maybe if said recruiters' clients or employers were willing to look past the US borders and into the realm of remote working, they wouldn't have half the problems they have right now. They would have an entire new set of problems, but not the ones they currently face. FTFY.

PhasmaFelis 13y ago

I can't quite figure out if this is a genuine and reasonable reply, or if he's being a pedantic ass. ".NET developer? Oh no no no! I'm just a software developer who also knows .NET. Please resubmit your offer, replacing all instances of the phrase '.NET developer' with 'software developer'."

lugg 13y ago
I'm erring on the side of pedantic twat. But I'm just a php developer so what do I know.

Dakuan 13y ago

I do feel the authors pain as a recently liberated .NET developer. I can either remove a third of my experience from my linkedIn profile, or suffer a deluge of approaches from people trying to fill .NET roles. That said, the article (and many of the comments here) are very US centric. In the UK, there are loads of .NET developers and even more .NET jobs. They often pay pretty well too.

valdiorn 13y ago

Honest question, what do you think is wrong with .NET? C# is my favorite language and I'm learning F# at the moment, which I think just as good (but very different). Microsoft have done a shitload to evolve the platform in the last decade as well. So why all the sarcastic joking and hate?

BSousa 13y ago
Because it is cool to take the piss at .net developers around here! Most coming from young folks that have only been working on the 'next facebook' with go/node.js/rails to understand there is a big and very profitable world out there that runs on more mature stacks/languages. But hey, doing CAD/Financial Modelling/Insurance/etc software isn't shiny and something to brag on the next hackathon for hacker cred right?
- guyprovost 13y ago
  That, my friend is well said. Agreed!
CmonDev 13y ago
Besides most of the stack is open source now. At least the bits you realistically would be willing to contribute to.
jonheller 13y ago
I've never seen a qualified response to this question. .NET is by Microsoft. It's Windows based. It's been around for a long time. It didn't introduce any new paradigms, and I'm guessing isn't used by a single startup in California. But it's fast, it's solid, and from my experience, there are more well paying, reliable opportunities in it than with any other language. Honestly, I'd rather be spending my time learning Node or Ruby or heck even sharpening my PHP skills. But I enjoy .NET and would much rather work at the company I'm currently at, in a position I like with people I respect, than jump ship just for a non .NET opportunity.
- jconley 13y ago

BenefitOfDoubt 13y ago

>Even though I’m fairly well connected in Portland, Seattle, Vancouver (BC) and even San Francisco it is rare for me to meet someone who wants to do pure .NET Development. If there is I’ll connect them with you. However if you know a company that is porting away from .NET, building greenfield applications in Node.js, Ruby on Rails or other open source stacks I have a few software developers that might be interested. You may consider yourself somewhat well connected in startup culture circles perhaps but even though that may be the noisiest and most visible, it is actually quite in the minority in actual numbers of software devs in our country. Enterprise (you know the companies that actually make our economy churn) like banks, retail chains, Intel, HP, ETC. corporate America, government, military. ETC) is where most of the .NET devs seem to be. Trust me, there are plenty of them, even in Portland. (hate to break it to you but you sound like kind of a big fish in a small pond) Do you think that you know better than veteran recruiters how many .NET devs are in certain areas (some of which you don't even live in?). If .NET devs were that scarce in these areas as you seem to conclude, I really doubt that recruiters would even bother advertising for them. Also, if they were this scarce, corporations would be forced to pay exorbitant amounts of money for them or switch to another technology (simple logic tells us this). This is almost akin to the disconnect of the hippie culture of the 60s. You had the hippies who knew their culture and circle of people, then you had the majority of (albeit less visible) Americans who were working 9-5 and raising families while keeping the country actually functioning. A lot of hippies didn't even realize that much existed outside of their limited perception (I speak from experience). Your ignorance may be overlooked by many here on HN because many share the same culture and ignorance as you, but to the 9-5 serious family/career corporate generation - you look like a fool. Not just because of your blind ignorance, but also your petulance.

zamalek 13y ago

Dear Enterprise/Microsoft Hater 128 345 501, Do understand that we were simply asking for a developer who understands the .Net platform; and in no way labeling the developers - heck, it's what they call themselves! We appreciate that there is a lot of FUD surrounding various languages but as we all know FUD is unfounded hatred and hence theoretical; where the conscious and deliberate action of excluding yourself from an entire market is a literal limiting action. We are grateful to hear that your community of contacts have this trend in terms of development technologies; as most developer communities tend to. You should meet some of the COBOL folks I hooked up with work, they work once a month and drive Ferraris - such a pity COBOL is an evil enterprise language; it's not even cool like Javascript is! Yours, Scummy Corporate Recruiter 1

deciplex 13y ago
Hey if I'm on any of your call lists can you remove me please? Cheers.
- zamalek 13y ago
  I'm not an actual recruiter, was just roleplaying there; at my gig we don't really need recruiters - in fact we usually have problems with developers that they send our way (we have been forced to use them a few times to match our growth). Our best talent comes from word of mouth. I'm not sure they do a good job (for both the employer and employee) no matter what the language. I was merely pointing out the irony in the post.

bosch 13y ago

Am I the only one who thinks that sounds pompous? I can understand maybe being spammed from recruiters, but replying like this just brings you down to their level. It also makes software devs seem like jackasses. That would be the case if you were trashing Java or Python or any other language. I just don't really see the point of replying like this.

ksk 13y ago

People may or may not have good reasons to dislike technologies. I'm sure people have their reasons for disliking .NET just like they do with Java or any other technology. From just a generic statement - its hard to know either way. I actively dislike all current web app frameworks. The SaaS trend is worrying IMO because it seems to be the only viable way that startups can make money these days. I rarely see any startup selling an actual software product. In my view, you take a rich client application - throw in memory bloat, CPU bloat, reduce the responsiveness, add in some downtime and you get a webapp. By the very fact that all web apps are limited by client apps (the browser in most cases), I don't see any reason to settle for a 'second-class' experience.

CmonDev 13y ago

Short version "Real world, please care about our hipster frameworks that are using languages older than some enterprise ones. We don't want to use Xamarin to re-use maximum code while retaining native performance and languages that don't suck; we don't want to use Unity3d to be able to quickly prototype at low cost and hight quality. Please pigeon-hole Node.js in every freaking domain, because everything is an IO throughput problem plus you get to use a crappy language not just on client side but on server side as well!".

WWLink 13y ago

You know what, if they are looking for a developer that can hit the ground running with .NET and make some great stuff, I'm not that guy. If they're looking to do some .NET projects and want some developers that are good to pick it up and try it. I'd do that. How do you get into that situation? Is it even possible? I hear and see the opposites - companies with absolutely no interest in training, and companies that love training.