5 ms·

> Ultimately, Tesla service applied non-tamper tape to the fuse switch. From that point on, the fuse performed flawlessly. Wow.

IvyMike 13y ago
To me, this is the wow part: > After investigating, they determined that the car's front trunk had been opened immediately before the fuse failure on each of the three occasions. The Tesla sure logs a lot of things.
- Balgair 13y ago
  Wow is right. I do not like that at all. What I do in my car is my business, not Elon's.
  - ceejayoz 13y ago
    What this guy did in his car appears intended to fuck Elon's business, so I'd say that's debatable to some extent.
    - npizzolato 13y ago
      So track everything about everyone in the event one person brings a lawsuit against the company? I'm not sure I'm going to consent to that.
      - pdonis 13y ago
        Then don't buy a Tesla.
        Balgair 13y ago
        Well, if I were a GM exec, I'd try to get the same stuff on my cars to nip these things in the bud. In fact, I'd bet most execs are looking to do just that. The tech can be used on all cars and it makes sense to use it on all cars. At least, from the shareholder's side. What then? Do I not get to own a car? A 'then move to another country' argument is shallow. As consumers, we still have rights after we buy anything.
        pdonis 13y ago
        > if I were a GM exec, I'd try to get the same stuff on my cars to nip these things in the bud If that were true, GM and all the other manufacturers would already be doing it. The tech Tesla is using for this is not new. The main reason other car manufacturers don't do it is probably very simple: cost. You have to spend the money for the extra sensors in each vehicle, plus whatever hardware is storing the data and/or transmitting it to Tesla, plus you have to hire and train your own technicians to handle the data and interact with customers (other car manufacturers have their dealers do that, but dealers aren't interested in the kind of data Tesla is collecting). Another possible reason is that other car manufacturers don't have enough of a problem with lemon law suits to make it worth using this kind of tech on their cars. I'd be interested to see data on that if anyone has any. > What then? Do I not get to own a car? If it ever gets to the point where every single car manufacturer is doing this, then yes, that would be your only option if you absolutely refuse to deal with it. (Unless you wanted to start your own car company.) > As consumers, we still have rights after we buy anything. But you don't have the right to force someone to sell you their product on your terms instead of theirs. Tesla is completely up front about what they are doing; buyers sign a long agreement that spells all this out, and if they don't like it, they are free not to buy. You could try challenging the agreement in court, but I'm not sure on what grounds you would do that.
      - crashandburn4 13y ago
        I don't think the reasoning behind the logging is really to prevent/provide evidence for lawsuits. I think it's more a case of log all the things so we can see what's relevant later and can use it to ensure the car stays working as long as possible. "The unreasonable effectiveness of data" has definitely permeated through to engineering and I'd just say they're good engineers that want good logs, with protection from litigation as a happy bones. That is my opinion though.
- XorNot 13y ago
  They seem to have been right to, given the number of times people have setup to knock them down.
- sologoub 13y ago
  Yeah, in this specific case, it seems somewhat justified, but I'm really not sure how I feel about a car that logs that much. Even though I use web apps that can log everything including mouse movement, something about such logging in the physical world still puts me off big time...
  - BHSPitMonkey 13y ago
    Would you feel better about an option that let you disable internal logging on the condition that your service/maintenance costs were raised substantially? The purpose seems to be to make diagnostic work easier, after all.
    - Balgair 13y ago
      My Dad is a mechanic and I can tell you this would be a god-send for troubleshooting. However, as a private person, I have a lot of trouble with other people knowing my habits and who I visit when and where. Docs and Dentists take an oath not to tell for a reason. Mechanics and engineers do not. Also, an increased price is not acceptable. The default should stay the same, the increased logging should come at a premium if anything.
      - onaclov2000 13y ago
        I don't know what they specifically log, but if they don't log car location, I'm not sure what "value" from a personal privacy standpoint, they would gain in knowing you open your doors 3 times before sitting down. Other than that you're OCD I guess :S. If they track location, then that changes my entire opinion. That's a trickier subject to handle.
        Balgair 13y ago
        Well, the timing of opening/closing of doors might be able to give you a radius from work to home. But since most repair shops know this to bill you, thats mute. If it logged when, then they would know your routine, but they could guess that anyways. Yeah, it's a bit paranoid, and logging it is less harmful than real time updating and tracking. Still, some of the guys that my dad worked with would not by ANY means be considered trustworthy people.
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
- brc 13y ago
  I think you'll find that most modern cars log a lot of things, and that it isn't something specific to Tesla. It is for diagnostics and warranty reasons that these occur, as well as quality control.
- klawed 13y ago
  I'm surprised the removal of a fuse wouldn't be logged. Unless it's the fuse that powers the logger.
  - maxerickson 13y ago
    The fuse removal gets logged as a fuse failure.
    - klawed 13y ago
      Of course. That makes perfect sense.
jack-r-abbit 13y ago
Could you elaborate on what is wowing you? I'm not sure what is so wowing about the tech putting some tape over the fuse. I'm curious what about that has you so interested. Your one word comment didn't really explain it. Edit: sorry my question offended so many people. I was just curious and did not want to assume the meaning of the "wow" since others seem to be put off by how much logging the car does. I wasn't sure what the parent comment was about. sorry.
- BrandonMarc 13y ago
  "wow", I assume, in that it makes it clearly apparent the customer was sabotaging their own car, in order to cause trouble and bring the lawsuit. Especially given how this isn't the only lemon-lawsuit by this customer and this lawyer, in just the last few months.

IvyMike 13y ago

To me, this is the wow part: > After investigating, they determined that the car's front trunk had been opened immediately before the fuse failure on each of the three occasions. The Tesla sure logs a lot of things.

Balgair 13y ago
Wow is right. I do not like that at all. What I do in my car is my business, not Elon's.
- ceejayoz 13y ago
  What this guy did in his car appears intended to fuck Elon's business, so I'd say that's debatable to some extent.
  - npizzolato 13y ago
    So track everything about everyone in the event one person brings a lawsuit against the company? I'm not sure I'm going to consent to that.
    - pdonis 13y ago
      Then don't buy a Tesla.
      - Balgair 13y ago
        Well, if I were a GM exec, I'd try to get the same stuff on my cars to nip these things in the bud. In fact, I'd bet most execs are looking to do just that. The tech can be used on all cars and it makes sense to use it on all cars. At least, from the shareholder's side. What then? Do I not get to own a car? A 'then move to another country' argument is shallow. As consumers, we still have rights after we buy anything.
        pdonis 13y ago
        > if I were a GM exec, I'd try to get the same stuff on my cars to nip these things in the bud If that were true, GM and all the other manufacturers would already be doing it. The tech Tesla is using for this is not new. The main reason other car manufacturers don't do it is probably very simple: cost. You have to spend the money for the extra sensors in each vehicle, plus whatever hardware is storing the data and/or transmitting it to Tesla, plus you have to hire and train your own technicians to handle the data and interact with customers (other car manufacturers have their dealers do that, but dealers aren't interested in the kind of data Tesla is collecting). Another possible reason is that other car manufacturers don't have enough of a problem with lemon law suits to make it worth using this kind of tech on their cars. I'd be interested to see data on that if anyone has any. > What then? Do I not get to own a car? If it ever gets to the point where every single car manufacturer is doing this, then yes, that would be your only option if you absolutely refuse to deal with it. (Unless you wanted to start your own car company.) > As consumers, we still have rights after we buy anything. But you don't have the right to force someone to sell you their product on your terms instead of theirs. Tesla is completely up front about what they are doing; buyers sign a long agreement that spells all this out, and if they don't like it, they are free not to buy. You could try challenging the agreement in court, but I'm not sure on what grounds you would do that.
    - crashandburn4 13y ago
      I don't think the reasoning behind the logging is really to prevent/provide evidence for lawsuits. I think it's more a case of log all the things so we can see what's relevant later and can use it to ensure the car stays working as long as possible. "The unreasonable effectiveness of data" has definitely permeated through to engineering and I'd just say they're good engineers that want good logs, with protection from litigation as a happy bones. That is my opinion though.
XorNot 13y ago
They seem to have been right to, given the number of times people have setup to knock them down.
sologoub 13y ago
Yeah, in this specific case, it seems somewhat justified, but I'm really not sure how I feel about a car that logs that much. Even though I use web apps that can log everything including mouse movement, something about such logging in the physical world still puts me off big time...
- BHSPitMonkey 13y ago
  Would you feel better about an option that let you disable internal logging on the condition that your service/maintenance costs were raised substantially? The purpose seems to be to make diagnostic work easier, after all.
  - Balgair 13y ago
    My Dad is a mechanic and I can tell you this would be a god-send for troubleshooting. However, as a private person, I have a lot of trouble with other people knowing my habits and who I visit when and where. Docs and Dentists take an oath not to tell for a reason. Mechanics and engineers do not. Also, an increased price is not acceptable. The default should stay the same, the increased logging should come at a premium if anything.
    - onaclov2000 13y ago
      I don't know what they specifically log, but if they don't log car location, I'm not sure what "value" from a personal privacy standpoint, they would gain in knowing you open your doors 3 times before sitting down. Other than that you're OCD I guess :S. If they track location, then that changes my entire opinion. That's a trickier subject to handle.
      - Balgair 13y ago
        Well, the timing of opening/closing of doors might be able to give you a radius from work to home. But since most repair shops know this to bill you, thats mute. If it logged when, then they would know your routine, but they could guess that anyways. Yeah, it's a bit paranoid, and logging it is less harmful than real time updating and tracking. Still, some of the guys that my dad worked with would not by ANY means be considered trustworthy people.
deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
brc 13y ago
I think you'll find that most modern cars log a lot of things, and that it isn't something specific to Tesla. It is for diagnostics and warranty reasons that these occur, as well as quality control.
klawed 13y ago
I'm surprised the removal of a fuse wouldn't be logged. Unless it's the fuse that powers the logger.
- maxerickson 13y ago
  The fuse removal gets logged as a fuse failure.
  - klawed 13y ago
    Of course. That makes perfect sense.

jack-r-abbit 13y ago

Could you elaborate on what is wowing you? I'm not sure what is so wowing about the tech putting some tape over the fuse. I'm curious what about that has you so interested. Your one word comment didn't really explain it. Edit: sorry my question offended so many people. I was just curious and did not want to assume the meaning of the "wow" since others seem to be put off by how much logging the car does. I wasn't sure what the parent comment was about. sorry.

BrandonMarc 13y ago
"wow", I assume, in that it makes it clearly apparent the customer was sabotaging their own car, in order to cause trouble and bring the lawsuit. Especially given how this isn't the only lemon-lawsuit by this customer and this lawyer, in just the last few months.