4 ms·

On acceptance of failure... I am curious how truly different Silicon Valley is versus other areas. While we give lip service to the idea of failure being OK, t

On acceptance of failure... I am curious how truly different Silicon Valley is versus other areas. While we give lip service to the idea of failure being OK, the reality is in most places it is destructive to your long term prospects. I am from the midwest and around here there is a very cliquey mindset. Hang in and around the startup communities and you will see the people who claim to be investors, the people who actually are investors, the people who claim to be founders/entreprenuers and the people actually doing something. Then there are the posers, always around trying to be part of the game and gossiping about every founder, judging every idea and trying to generally be seen as part of the in-crowd. It is like high school only with serious money involved. I point all this out to say that this clique mindset gives lip service to the idea of failure or pivots being OK but in reality - you just blew it. You didn't have what it takes. You are really no good. Your idea sucked. etc etc etc. What is worse is that breaking into the funding market is rather difficult unless you have a success story under your belt. Started a company and exited (even if a meager acquihire) then you get an instant seat at the table. On the flip side, if you failed - that failure acts as a noose going forward. Like I said, I am really curious if SV is truly different or people like to think it is different and market it as different when in reality it is the same high school clique show that I see around here. I hope it is different, I truly do.

ChuckMcM 13y ago
There are posers of course, and people with other issues, but in general I've found folks to be pretty honest. What a lot of people miss though is that it takes time. There is definitely an inverse power log sort of thing where the number of people who have gone right from college into startup success is really small, and the number of people who have gone from school to startup success in 10 years is pretty large. A typical trajectory seems to be move here working for some current 'big' tech company. Build a network of the cool people there and figure out where you eventually want to live, then show your stuff at BigCorp while people who have been there longer start peeling off. Most people know who are the 'good' people and who are the not so good people at their previous employment, if they have you in the 'good' category and they've gone off to do a startup you find interesting, you can often follow them there. Then get your feet wet in a startup early employee to exit (death, buyout, what haveyou). During that time you get known by the VCs in the company and your peers there, perhaps you recruit people. You prove you can be effective in a small environment. Then using your connections with investors or other people you've met you go in as a really early group of already more seasoned people, which ideally has a solid outcome, and at that point 10 - 12 years have your graduation from school you are ready to start your own thing. The graphs in this chart [1] match my experience. People doing a lot of the founding are in their 30's. Up until you're the founder though, success or failure is rarely on you, its on the founders. And even then depending on how it failed well that can actually be a positive if it was shooting for the stars and only making it to the outskirts of the solar system.
- keithwarren 13y ago
  Your story in the 30s feels about right. I am 34 and just now starting to really get serious about founding something. I think the experience of working for 15+ years yet still having the drive to achieve is a pretty good potion for success. Would love to find some stats that break down startup success/failure rates with delineation like age of the founder.
deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
EC1 13y ago
The reason failure is OK is because there are a variety of factors outside of your control, and your ability to succeed may or may not depend on that variable. Whether it did, you'll most likely never know. The possibility of failure based extraneous conditions already makes failure OK. My internet marketing business failed because Google changed their SEO guidelines and it shut me down. I did everything perfectly, or so I thought, and then it just happened. That's alright. I think failure should be taken in context. Recently in a big project at a bank (absolute disaster of a project, most of us quit), I am seen as a failure because I do not spend my time after hours (unpaid) working, while the rest of my team does. Is this in my control? Yeah sure it is, but at the same time it isn't. > On the flip side, if you failed - that failure acts as a noose going forward. A personal fail is a form of personal victory, seen as failure by everyone else who isn't you.
- FD3SA 13y ago
  >I am seen as a failure because I do not spend my time after hours (unpaid) working, while the rest of my team does. Alas, your only failure was that you didn't manage to get your team to join you. Sadly, I know how hard it can be to prevent clueless people from self-destructing in a blaze of misguided martyrdom. People who devalue their time will forever be at the mercy of those who don't. What is the difference between engineers and doctors? Doctors viciously protect the value of their time across the board, with no exceptions. They ruthlessly enforce this through one of the most effective trades guilds of all time, the one and only American Medical Association. You did the right thing my friend, but unfortunately, you are stranded in a sea of clueless lemmings, who will jump off a cliff at the behest of their masters, for no additional compensation. In my opinion, rational engineers have resorted to entrepreneurship as a last ditch effort to capture some of massive value that they create which would otherwise go straight to the parasitic managers and executives.
  - jessaustin 13y ago
    What would be required for "engineers" to form one or more trade guilds with the function of the AMA? (Although frankly you should talk to a few dentists; the AMA's got nothing on the ADA.)
determinant 13y ago
I am a midwesterner. What startup communities should I be looking at to observe what you have observed? (This is a serious question.)
mbesto 13y ago
Background: I grew up in the midwest, lived in London, and now live in SV. Here's my 2c. The average person in SV is on their 4-5th startup (whether started or early employee), as compared to the 1st-3rd elsewhere (YMMV). Think of it this way - instead of BigCo wasting away money on a new product launch (good example - Microsoft Kin), there's loads of money being poured into 100's of Kin-like products, and only very few emerge victorious. This is only possible because of the massive amount of recycled money in tech startups. The rationalization of failure in SV has less to do with commercial progress and more about sociological factors. In other words, there is a huge support network of people who have experienced failures, so it eases the pain of it happening to you. Think about going to an AA meeting where there are 100 recovering alcoholics vs one that has 5. The one with the 100 makes it much easier to recover. You get a large pool of like-minded people and can create allegiances/relationships with much more variety. Want to find someone who also failed a Fitness Tech wearable company in Chicago? Good luck. In SV? There's probably one living down the street from you. Lastly, there is a fair share of fakers here. Number wise, more than anywhere else, but relative to the successes, it's no different than anywhere else. People can hustle their way into the industry with little effort. People rarely check backgrounds here, and there is a winner take all attitude (integrated with a passive, pay-it-forward mentality). > What is worse is that breaking into the funding market is rather difficult unless you have a success story under your belt. This is slightly a myth. One thing that is preached here and does bode well, is that traction matters. If you can build something (that people want), get traction (prove they want it), then there is more than enough money floating around to get funding. Is it easier to get funding once you've proven yourself in the Valley? Absolutely. But you'd be surprised to find that funding isn't everything here.

ChuckMcM 13y ago

There are posers of course, and people with other issues, but in general I've found folks to be pretty honest. What a lot of people miss though is that it takes time. There is definitely an inverse power log sort of thing where the number of people who have gone right from college into startup success is really small, and the number of people who have gone from school to startup success in 10 years is pretty large. A typical trajectory seems to be move here working for some current 'big' tech company. Build a network of the cool people there and figure out where you eventually want to live, then show your stuff at BigCorp while people who have been there longer start peeling off. Most people know who are the 'good' people and who are the not so good people at their previous employment, if they have you in the 'good' category and they've gone off to do a startup you find interesting, you can often follow them there. Then get your feet wet in a startup early employee to exit (death, buyout, what haveyou). During that time you get known by the VCs in the company and your peers there, perhaps you recruit people. You prove you can be effective in a small environment. Then using your connections with investors or other people you've met you go in as a really early group of already more seasoned people, which ideally has a solid outcome, and at that point 10 - 12 years have your graduation from school you are ready to start your own thing. The graphs in this chart [1] match my experience. People doing a lot of the founding are in their 30's. Up until you're the founder though, success or failure is rarely on you, its on the founders. And even then depending on how it failed well that can actually be a positive if it was shooting for the stars and only making it to the outskirts of the solar system.

keithwarren 13y ago
Your story in the 30s feels about right. I am 34 and just now starting to really get serious about founding something. I think the experience of working for 15+ years yet still having the drive to achieve is a pretty good potion for success. Would love to find some stats that break down startup success/failure rates with delineation like age of the founder.

deleted 13y ago

[deleted]

EC1 13y ago

The reason failure is OK is because there are a variety of factors outside of your control, and your ability to succeed may or may not depend on that variable. Whether it did, you'll most likely never know. The possibility of failure based extraneous conditions already makes failure OK. My internet marketing business failed because Google changed their SEO guidelines and it shut me down. I did everything perfectly, or so I thought, and then it just happened. That's alright. I think failure should be taken in context. Recently in a big project at a bank (absolute disaster of a project, most of us quit), I am seen as a failure because I do not spend my time after hours (unpaid) working, while the rest of my team does. Is this in my control? Yeah sure it is, but at the same time it isn't. > On the flip side, if you failed - that failure acts as a noose going forward. A personal fail is a form of personal victory, seen as failure by everyone else who isn't you.

FD3SA 13y ago
>I am seen as a failure because I do not spend my time after hours (unpaid) working, while the rest of my team does. Alas, your only failure was that you didn't manage to get your team to join you. Sadly, I know how hard it can be to prevent clueless people from self-destructing in a blaze of misguided martyrdom. People who devalue their time will forever be at the mercy of those who don't. What is the difference between engineers and doctors? Doctors viciously protect the value of their time across the board, with no exceptions. They ruthlessly enforce this through one of the most effective trades guilds of all time, the one and only American Medical Association. You did the right thing my friend, but unfortunately, you are stranded in a sea of clueless lemmings, who will jump off a cliff at the behest of their masters, for no additional compensation. In my opinion, rational engineers have resorted to entrepreneurship as a last ditch effort to capture some of massive value that they create which would otherwise go straight to the parasitic managers and executives.
- jessaustin 13y ago
  What would be required for "engineers" to form one or more trade guilds with the function of the AMA? (Although frankly you should talk to a few dentists; the AMA's got nothing on the ADA.)

determinant 13y ago

I am a midwesterner. What startup communities should I be looking at to observe what you have observed? (This is a serious question.)

mbesto 13y ago

Background: I grew up in the midwest, lived in London, and now live in SV. Here's my 2c. The average person in SV is on their 4-5th startup (whether started or early employee), as compared to the 1st-3rd elsewhere (YMMV). Think of it this way - instead of BigCo wasting away money on a new product launch (good example - Microsoft Kin), there's loads of money being poured into 100's of Kin-like products, and only very few emerge victorious. This is only possible because of the massive amount of recycled money in tech startups. The rationalization of failure in SV has less to do with commercial progress and more about sociological factors. In other words, there is a huge support network of people who have experienced failures, so it eases the pain of it happening to you. Think about going to an AA meeting where there are 100 recovering alcoholics vs one that has 5. The one with the 100 makes it much easier to recover. You get a large pool of like-minded people and can create allegiances/relationships with much more variety. Want to find someone who also failed a Fitness Tech wearable company in Chicago? Good luck. In SV? There's probably one living down the street from you. Lastly, there is a fair share of fakers here. Number wise, more than anywhere else, but relative to the successes, it's no different than anywhere else. People can hustle their way into the industry with little effort. People rarely check backgrounds here, and there is a winner take all attitude (integrated with a passive, pay-it-forward mentality). > What is worse is that breaking into the funding market is rather difficult unless you have a success story under your belt. This is slightly a myth. One thing that is preached here and does bode well, is that traction matters. If you can build something (that people want), get traction (prove they want it), then there is more than enough money floating around to get funding. Is it easier to get funding once you've proven yourself in the Valley? Absolutely. But you'd be surprised to find that funding isn't everything here.