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Well, I've never been bullied, but if an adult "bullied" me (as an adult) in any serious way, I would refer him to the police within a matter of minutes. This

Well, I've never been bullied, but if an adult "bullied" me (as an adult) in any serious way, I would refer him to the police within a matter of minutes. This is the proper solution. Any assault on a child should be dealt with legally, and if it means moving a thug to a reform school, then all the better.

bobdole2695 17y ago
Right, because criminalizing the behavior of children just starting to understand social dynamics isn't a way out of proportion response.
- berntb 17y ago
  I'm far from an expert, but that was naive. You missed that part about bullies often having problems in school, didn't you? Generally, you want to stop the bullying for one of the same reasons you want to stop rapes -- it damages the lives of many victims. But you also want to catch this, because the bully often needs help. Edit: I don't really have an opinion on when/if the police should get involved. It probably depends on bow fscked the teacher subculture is.
- mynameishere 17y ago
  So...free pass then. Right, carry on. You say to the thug, in no uncertain terms, "The next time you do XYZ, the consequences will be a removal from school." And, yes, have the police deal with it because they are actually equipped for such activity, unlike your typical teacher. ...and to be clear, I'm talking about instances of actual assault, and not the vast bulk of things in the category "bullying".
  - sethg 17y ago
    And the thug says "What do you mean, 'the next time you do XYZ'? I never did XYZ! If he says I did that, he's lying!" And since the third parties to the abuse are other kids who don't want to have reputations for being snitches, the thug can continue to abuse with impunity.
  - bobdole2695 17y ago
    The police don't have the authority to remove a kid from school without jailing them. The school administration is empowered to provide sanctions and have experience and training in dealing with children. It's a very different game than the police who deal with adults, using Tasers.
- runinit 17y ago
  As someone who was bullied for the better part of his early school career (kindergarden to grade 6) i'm going to have to say that if a group of kids cant understand that gang beating someone is wrong, they deserve to be put in a special school.
- talvisota 17y ago
  Kids are really good at low-level social dynamics. They know the balance and go with the flow. That's how bullying often is so successful. For a bully, only limiting factors are fear of punishment and disapproval by peers. If making bullying a legal case is the only way left to proceed, any parent should just go ahead, and take it as far as necessary. Sometimes it's just the school administration who need a kick in their collective ass to actually do something about it. At the far end, it's the bully himself who is in need of that kick. You are assuming that somebody wants to make things out of proportion. Is it out of proportion, for example, to call police if your kid has been beaten or robbed on the way home? You can't be seriously claiming that to protect the fragile worldview of the thugs/thieves you should sacrifice the one of the victim?
philwelch 17y ago
Like prison guards, school authorities and the police won't protect anyone from bullies. So, just as if you were in prison, you have to respond to bullies yourself.
bonsaitree 17y ago
Applying adult standards to child behavior is so fraught with flaws, I don't even know where to begin. Suffice it to say that, with near universal applicability, all human societies throughout recorded history have made clear distinctions between the boundaries of acceptable social behavior (and punishments for breaching these boundaries) for children and adults. There's also quite a large accumulated body of modern scientific measurements which suggests that children and early teenagers lack the sufficiently streamlined cerebral pathways (pre-puberty) which would allow them to make the social judgment calls and impulse control to both avoid being a bully and/or a bullied victim. In both roles, they can not balance the short-term costs against the long-term consequences. You also make a gross assumption about the training and responsiveness of a local police force to situations involving minors in the custody of a school. Baring extreme violence, a history of criminal behavior, or property damage, in most municipalities, this is the fiduciary responsibility of the public school district. For private institutions, a specific set of liability clauses and insurance is part of the enrollment contract.

bobdole2695 17y ago

Right, because criminalizing the behavior of children just starting to understand social dynamics isn't a way out of proportion response.

berntb 17y ago
I'm far from an expert, but that was naive. You missed that part about bullies often having problems in school, didn't you? Generally, you want to stop the bullying for one of the same reasons you want to stop rapes -- it damages the lives of many victims. But you also want to catch this, because the bully often needs help. Edit: I don't really have an opinion on when/if the police should get involved. It probably depends on bow fscked the teacher subculture is.
mynameishere 17y ago
So...free pass then. Right, carry on. You say to the thug, in no uncertain terms, "The next time you do XYZ, the consequences will be a removal from school." And, yes, have the police deal with it because they are actually equipped for such activity, unlike your typical teacher. ...and to be clear, I'm talking about instances of actual assault, and not the vast bulk of things in the category "bullying".
- sethg 17y ago
  And the thug says "What do you mean, 'the next time you do XYZ'? I never did XYZ! If he says I did that, he's lying!" And since the third parties to the abuse are other kids who don't want to have reputations for being snitches, the thug can continue to abuse with impunity.
- bobdole2695 17y ago
  The police don't have the authority to remove a kid from school without jailing them. The school administration is empowered to provide sanctions and have experience and training in dealing with children. It's a very different game than the police who deal with adults, using Tasers.
runinit 17y ago
As someone who was bullied for the better part of his early school career (kindergarden to grade 6) i'm going to have to say that if a group of kids cant understand that gang beating someone is wrong, they deserve to be put in a special school.
talvisota 17y ago
Kids are really good at low-level social dynamics. They know the balance and go with the flow. That's how bullying often is so successful. For a bully, only limiting factors are fear of punishment and disapproval by peers. If making bullying a legal case is the only way left to proceed, any parent should just go ahead, and take it as far as necessary. Sometimes it's just the school administration who need a kick in their collective ass to actually do something about it. At the far end, it's the bully himself who is in need of that kick. You are assuming that somebody wants to make things out of proportion. Is it out of proportion, for example, to call police if your kid has been beaten or robbed on the way home? You can't be seriously claiming that to protect the fragile worldview of the thugs/thieves you should sacrifice the one of the victim?

philwelch 17y ago

Like prison guards, school authorities and the police won't protect anyone from bullies. So, just as if you were in prison, you have to respond to bullies yourself.

bonsaitree 17y ago

Applying adult standards to child behavior is so fraught with flaws, I don't even know where to begin. Suffice it to say that, with near universal applicability, all human societies throughout recorded history have made clear distinctions between the boundaries of acceptable social behavior (and punishments for breaching these boundaries) for children and adults. There's also quite a large accumulated body of modern scientific measurements which suggests that children and early teenagers lack the sufficiently streamlined cerebral pathways (pre-puberty) which would allow them to make the social judgment calls and impulse control to both avoid being a bully and/or a bullied victim. In both roles, they can not balance the short-term costs against the long-term consequences. You also make a gross assumption about the training and responsiveness of a local police force to situations involving minors in the custody of a school. Baring extreme violence, a history of criminal behavior, or property damage, in most municipalities, this is the fiduciary responsibility of the public school district. For private institutions, a specific set of liability clauses and insurance is part of the enrollment contract.