5 ms·

I know it sucks because you probably need that $8/hour right at this point but in the grand scheme, the "pizza party" and "wheel of fish" is about the most humi

I know it sucks because you probably need that $8/hour right at this point but in the grand scheme, the "pizza party" and "wheel of fish" is about the most humiliating ridiculousness I've heard in quite some time. Life is too damn short. Just reading the small amount you've written about the situation, I can tell you that you simply write English at a greater than $8/hour level. Probably much greater. I'm continually shocked at how aggressively companies court mediocrity and failure. They probably think they are extremely progressive even for listening to employees in the first place, double plus points for giving token rewards. Unless, of course, that the employee input happens to be about how ridiculous and juvenile the whole exercise is.

mironathetin 13y ago
I agree, the pizza parties and Amazon stuff is ridiculous, no question. I guess, the management did not fire vturner, because he pointed out a better idea. He was fired, because he openly embarrassed the management in a meeting. This is very undiplomatic. Apart from proper english, it is also important to have social skills and develop a feeling for rudeness. It is very hard to find good ways to turn criticism into something positive and productive, though. This is all about how to put things and about the right or wrong moment. Not easy but worth trying.
- giarc 13y ago
  I agree, OP would probably still be employed if he spoke wit the management after the meeting, in private.
  - mildtrepidation 13y ago
    I wouldn't go so far as to make this assumption, though it could be the case. I'd say it's more important to realize that management that would come up with this sort of 'reward' in the first place is not at all likely to care about this kind of input, even if it's phrased nicely or given privately.
    - dragonwriter 13y ago
      Perhaps, but any management -- well intentioned or not -- is a lot less likely to see the "input" as disruption that is toxic to morale, productivity, and managements interests generally if it is either (and especially if it is both) presented in a way which focuses on constructive improvement in approach to the stated goal and/or provided privately.
    - giarc 13y ago
      Sure a poor assumption, but remember this is feedback from staff that are paid minimum wage. The inputs are not likely differing engineering controls for example which result in $100,000's of savings annually.
    - 001sky 13y ago
      This also migh just be the classic 'fit' issue. Whilst unfortunate, OP (or someone on his behalf) needs to find a better gig. Life is simply too short. Simple rule is business is to pay $10/per $100 dollars of new revenues. This is Amazon referral fee, for example. But getting paid $10/ per 1,000 is off by an <order of magnitude> and the manager is lacking judgement. This is opportunistic and potentially exploitative. Highly doubtful a private 1-on-1 would change the stripes, but maybe who knows.
  - deleted 13y ago
    [deleted]
- andyjohnson0 13y ago
  Certainly undiplomatic, but I wouldn't say it was rude. The "spin the wheel" incentive scheme is demeaning to the people it is meant to incentivise. For the senior management to propose it means they are either seriously clueless about people or simply don't care about them. In either case, in a business setting, the OP "telling it like it is" is a brave but appropriate response.
- noonespecial 13y ago
  His "outburst" may have been more for the benefit of his fellow employees than for management. I'm thinking that a few of them were quite encouraged that someone bravely spoke what they were feeling. It's hard to overstate how inhuman and alien some if these situations start feeling. I jolt of realness is a precious thing.
giarc 13y ago
I personally think people should appreciate any reward, even if it is just a pizza party. Why do people think they should get a cut of the savings? If you work for the company, you should want to see it succeed for the sake of your own future with the company. If a company has a policy in place for 10% cut of the savings, sure that's great. But don't be greedy and expect more.
- Yver 13y ago
  They think that because it's not part of their job, so they should be paid extra for it. I don't think that OP's $8/hour job's reponsibilities include increasing productivity on a company-wide scale. Management is asking the employees to do something that's not part of their job and for which they are not paid.
  - hnal943 13y ago
    I don't think it unreasonable to ask your employees for help. If you don't want the iPad, don't give good suggestions.
  - giarc 13y ago
    Doesn't sound like they made it part of his job, just a perk. Participating isn't a requirement. And if an employee was embarrassed by the pizza party and still wanted to submit an idea, I'm sure they could say "I don't want any pizza party, but what if we did this....."
- josephschmoe 13y ago
  That's not a 10% cut. It's a -chance- to win a 100$ item. Saving a company 1,000$ a month = 12,000$ a year -> that's a 1% cut, or possibly less.
- cLeEOGPw 13y ago
  Expecting more than $25 worth of reward for solution that saves the company $5000 a month is not being greedy, it's being reasonable and adequate.
ForHackernews 13y ago
Welcome to the New Economy: http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/2013/11/surviving-post-employment-economy-201311373243740811.html http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/2013/11/surviving-p... There are many very educated people who write English (and other languages) well struggling for $8/hour jobs. This state of affairs will be coming to the tech industry, too. We're not special, we're just behind the curve because tech was "uncool" for so long.
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
joebo 13y ago
Spinning a wheel with token prizes (upwards of a $300 item) is not necessarily a terrible, humiliating idea. I have participated in a similar exercise at a previous company and it was well received. In that case, we all wanted to improve the company already so it became a fun contest. Some companies have idea boxes that don't get used. I don't see the harm in making a small contest out of it. It sounds like the OP is dissatisfied with his compensation and lost some control and lashed out in a meeting. If the OP was my temp worker I would probably fire him too. Juno Pacific is probably paying the agency 2-3x which might be upwards of $16-$24/hr. Often, it's the temp agency that is taking more than a reasonable cut. The idea of writing a check for a portion of the improvement is more ridiculous and can quickly become complex. Is that paid for eternity? How are ideas with softer benefits calculated?
- wturner 13y ago
  Generally I agree. The whole temp agency compensation is another issue. But I can't help but feel that its extremely unfair to ask a bunch of $8 hour workers to give up ideas that can make the company a lot of money when generally speaking the company will be able to sustain itself irrespective of what these people say ( short of doing their day to day rote assembly and testing tasks ). Maybe writing workers a check for a big idea might be absurd but I think its equally absurd not more than the scenario I mentioned in the post. I think the real issue is that the upper manager who is responsible for productivity gains is in a position where he doesn't have any better incentives than the pizza party. This isn't necessarily because he's a good/bad manager, he's probably in a position that doesn't allow for much else. Regardless if its due to the situation he's in or an overall lack of creativity; either way the 'incentives' are kind of mediocre relative to the potential 'big' gains that could be made. edit I would also like to add that many of the people in the room felt the way I did thus it wasn't just my opinion. I was simply the only one that said anything. In that regard I kind of did the manager a favor allowing him to possibly adjust his approach.
  - lobotryas 13y ago
    You can ask, but that doesn't mean the employees have to tell you anything. Given that this is a voluntary incentive program, I'm unable to see how anyone can complain about it. To me, it's like a person complaining about a company weight loss program because they are already thin.

mironathetin 13y ago

I agree, the pizza parties and Amazon stuff is ridiculous, no question. I guess, the management did not fire vturner, because he pointed out a better idea. He was fired, because he openly embarrassed the management in a meeting. This is very undiplomatic. Apart from proper english, it is also important to have social skills and develop a feeling for rudeness. It is very hard to find good ways to turn criticism into something positive and productive, though. This is all about how to put things and about the right or wrong moment. Not easy but worth trying.

giarc 13y ago
I agree, OP would probably still be employed if he spoke wit the management after the meeting, in private.
- mildtrepidation 13y ago
  I wouldn't go so far as to make this assumption, though it could be the case. I'd say it's more important to realize that management that would come up with this sort of 'reward' in the first place is not at all likely to care about this kind of input, even if it's phrased nicely or given privately.
  - dragonwriter 13y ago
    Perhaps, but any management -- well intentioned or not -- is a lot less likely to see the "input" as disruption that is toxic to morale, productivity, and managements interests generally if it is either (and especially if it is both) presented in a way which focuses on constructive improvement in approach to the stated goal and/or provided privately.
  - giarc 13y ago
    Sure a poor assumption, but remember this is feedback from staff that are paid minimum wage. The inputs are not likely differing engineering controls for example which result in $100,000's of savings annually.
  - 001sky 13y ago
    This also migh just be the classic 'fit' issue. Whilst unfortunate, OP (or someone on his behalf) needs to find a better gig. Life is simply too short. Simple rule is business is to pay $10/per $100 dollars of new revenues. This is Amazon referral fee, for example. But getting paid $10/ per 1,000 is off by an <order of magnitude> and the manager is lacking judgement. This is opportunistic and potentially exploitative. Highly doubtful a private 1-on-1 would change the stripes, but maybe who knows.
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
andyjohnson0 13y ago
Certainly undiplomatic, but I wouldn't say it was rude. The "spin the wheel" incentive scheme is demeaning to the people it is meant to incentivise. For the senior management to propose it means they are either seriously clueless about people or simply don't care about them. In either case, in a business setting, the OP "telling it like it is" is a brave but appropriate response.
noonespecial 13y ago
His "outburst" may have been more for the benefit of his fellow employees than for management. I'm thinking that a few of them were quite encouraged that someone bravely spoke what they were feeling. It's hard to overstate how inhuman and alien some if these situations start feeling. I jolt of realness is a precious thing.

giarc 13y ago

I personally think people should appreciate any reward, even if it is just a pizza party. Why do people think they should get a cut of the savings? If you work for the company, you should want to see it succeed for the sake of your own future with the company. If a company has a policy in place for 10% cut of the savings, sure that's great. But don't be greedy and expect more.

Yver 13y ago
They think that because it's not part of their job, so they should be paid extra for it. I don't think that OP's $8/hour job's reponsibilities include increasing productivity on a company-wide scale. Management is asking the employees to do something that's not part of their job and for which they are not paid.
- hnal943 13y ago
  I don't think it unreasonable to ask your employees for help. If you don't want the iPad, don't give good suggestions.
- giarc 13y ago
  Doesn't sound like they made it part of his job, just a perk. Participating isn't a requirement. And if an employee was embarrassed by the pizza party and still wanted to submit an idea, I'm sure they could say "I don't want any pizza party, but what if we did this....."
josephschmoe 13y ago
That's not a 10% cut. It's a -chance- to win a 100$ item. Saving a company 1,000$ a month = 12,000$ a year -> that's a 1% cut, or possibly less.
cLeEOGPw 13y ago
Expecting more than $25 worth of reward for solution that saves the company $5000 a month is not being greedy, it's being reasonable and adequate.

ForHackernews 13y ago

Welcome to the New Economy: http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/2013/11/surviving-post-employment-economy-201311373243740811.html http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/2013/11/surviving-p... There are many very educated people who write English (and other languages) well struggling for $8/hour jobs. This state of affairs will be coming to the tech industry, too. We're not special, we're just behind the curve because tech was "uncool" for so long.

deleted 13y ago
[deleted]

joebo 13y ago

Spinning a wheel with token prizes (upwards of a $300 item) is not necessarily a terrible, humiliating idea. I have participated in a similar exercise at a previous company and it was well received. In that case, we all wanted to improve the company already so it became a fun contest. Some companies have idea boxes that don't get used. I don't see the harm in making a small contest out of it. It sounds like the OP is dissatisfied with his compensation and lost some control and lashed out in a meeting. If the OP was my temp worker I would probably fire him too. Juno Pacific is probably paying the agency 2-3x which might be upwards of $16-$24/hr. Often, it's the temp agency that is taking more than a reasonable cut. The idea of writing a check for a portion of the improvement is more ridiculous and can quickly become complex. Is that paid for eternity? How are ideas with softer benefits calculated?

wturner 13y ago
Generally I agree. The whole temp agency compensation is another issue. But I can't help but feel that its extremely unfair to ask a bunch of $8 hour workers to give up ideas that can make the company a lot of money when generally speaking the company will be able to sustain itself irrespective of what these people say ( short of doing their day to day rote assembly and testing tasks ). Maybe writing workers a check for a big idea might be absurd but I think its equally absurd not more than the scenario I mentioned in the post. I think the real issue is that the upper manager who is responsible for productivity gains is in a position where he doesn't have any better incentives than the pizza party. This isn't necessarily because he's a good/bad manager, he's probably in a position that doesn't allow for much else. Regardless if its due to the situation he's in or an overall lack of creativity; either way the 'incentives' are kind of mediocre relative to the potential 'big' gains that could be made. edit I would also like to add that many of the people in the room felt the way I did thus it wasn't just my opinion. I was simply the only one that said anything. In that regard I kind of did the manager a favor allowing him to possibly adjust his approach.
- lobotryas 13y ago
  You can ask, but that doesn't mean the employees have to tell you anything. Given that this is a voluntary incentive program, I'm unable to see how anyone can complain about it. To me, it's like a person complaining about a company weight loss program because they are already thin.