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Public service announcement: Tech Consultants don't make $40/hr. If you're a skilled, experienced developer and you find somebody trying to pay you less than

Public service announcement: Tech Consultants don't make $40/hr. If you're a skilled, experienced developer and you find somebody trying to pay you less than $75/hour to program computers on a contract basis, regardless of where in the world you live, say no. There do exist people who work for rates less than that. They're either called "employees" and receive benefits, or they're called "people being taken advantage of."

mcv 13y ago
Or students making a bit of extra money.
- ramchip 13y ago
  I wouldn't consider a student "experienced", unless they went back to studies after working for a while.
deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
reboog711 13y ago
Is a "Tech Consultant" the same thing as a programmer? I read that article under the assumption that a "Tech consultant" was someone who gave high level strategic advice. [Although I'd expect those folks to charge a ton more than a programmer]
dclowd9901 13y ago
Especially if you're working independently. You've gotta cover all your costs, including insurance and retirement. That usually puts a well oiled consultant up over the $150/hr mark.
danielweber 13y ago
regardless of where in the world you live, say no. How do you know this? I've gotten pushback in a top-20 (but not top-5) US city on that, even for appsec work.
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
- aculver 13y ago
  Because I'm fortunate to have a circle of developer friends where there is no longer any taboo talking about rates and salaries and no one is charging less than $100/hr. Maybe even $130/hr now. My rate is now $200/hr for one-off iOS and Ruby on Rails projects, up from $120/hr when I started working independently in the summer of 2012, and I still have to refer folks to qualified friends. The taboo of talking about salaries and rates is something that only benefits the people employing you and maybe a handful of employees, but never benefits employees at large. As a manager I remember finding out how much my employees were underpaid vs. another friend's team in a different division and after bringing up the issue with my director or VP a company-wide memo went out telling all managers and directors to stop talking about salaries across divisions. I wonder why.
  - danielweber 13y ago
    How geographically widespread is your circle of friends? It was the "anywhere in the world" part I was wondering about, not the fact that your friends can discuss wages.
benjohnson 13y ago
I charge $47 per hour - even do business apps in any of the rather-awesome frameworks at that price. Because my rates are so low, I don't have to spend time making mockups, bid proposals, or have to deal with the know-it-all nephew. I also get to work on fun "what-if" projects and my customers happily pay their bills. The dirty secret is that I charge for hosting - 60% of my income comes from hosting for solutions made in the past, and I don't even have to lift a finger.... well unless someone finds out about an SSL vulnerability. :)
- Oculus 13y ago
  Aren't you worried about downtime? Clients calling @ 2am doesn't sound like a fun time to me.
c0w 13y ago
You vastly underestimate the number of highly qualified developers in the world looking for work, and my opinion you vastly overestimate the value of your work. I would never pay your rate. Programming is a commodity. I hire PhD's from Asia and Eastern Europe for less than what would be considered minimum wage in the United States. An order of magnitude cheaper than what I assume your asking rate is. They produce great code and deliver in a reasonable timeframe. Calling this outsourcing exploitative is incredibly ignorant.
- wprl 13y ago
  Explain why it is not exploitative, please.
  - c0w 13y ago
    It's basic economics. Here are a few terms to start with that will help you see the bigger picture: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supply_and_demand http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supply_and_demand and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Per_capita_income http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Per_capita_income. The simple matter of fact is that the value of a dollar varies greatly by location. Asserting that a wage of less than $75/hr for programming is exploitative is absurd and offensive towards anyone who's ever off-shored work. I code. I offshore. I do not exploit my employees and resent the accusation that I do. I pay them very well compared to their peers, treat them with the same consideration and respect that I treat any other human being, and do not think it reflects well on this community to have such an ignorant and offensive statement as the highest ranked comment on this thread.
lnanek2 13y ago
They must not be talking about developers alone. The only developers who work that cheap are remote from other countries. I could see it maybe for IT people who wipe hard drives in computer labs or something like that, and who don't bill directly, but are paid by an agency that bills and takes a cut.
mcmillion 13y ago
I tried this for over a year and remained unemployed. Finally gave in for a $15/hr gig. It very much depends on where you live. The pool of clients in this region is very dry, and no one is willing to pay.

mcv 13y ago

Or students making a bit of extra money.

ramchip 13y ago
I wouldn't consider a student "experienced", unless they went back to studies after working for a while.

deleted 13y ago

[deleted]

reboog711 13y ago

Is a "Tech Consultant" the same thing as a programmer? I read that article under the assumption that a "Tech consultant" was someone who gave high level strategic advice. [Although I'd expect those folks to charge a ton more than a programmer]

dclowd9901 13y ago

Especially if you're working independently. You've gotta cover all your costs, including insurance and retirement. That usually puts a well oiled consultant up over the $150/hr mark.

danielweber 13y ago

regardless of where in the world you live, say no. How do you know this? I've gotten pushback in a top-20 (but not top-5) US city on that, even for appsec work.

deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
aculver 13y ago
Because I'm fortunate to have a circle of developer friends where there is no longer any taboo talking about rates and salaries and no one is charging less than $100/hr. Maybe even $130/hr now. My rate is now $200/hr for one-off iOS and Ruby on Rails projects, up from $120/hr when I started working independently in the summer of 2012, and I still have to refer folks to qualified friends. The taboo of talking about salaries and rates is something that only benefits the people employing you and maybe a handful of employees, but never benefits employees at large. As a manager I remember finding out how much my employees were underpaid vs. another friend's team in a different division and after bringing up the issue with my director or VP a company-wide memo went out telling all managers and directors to stop talking about salaries across divisions. I wonder why.
- danielweber 13y ago
  How geographically widespread is your circle of friends? It was the "anywhere in the world" part I was wondering about, not the fact that your friends can discuss wages.

benjohnson 13y ago

I charge $47 per hour - even do business apps in any of the rather-awesome frameworks at that price. Because my rates are so low, I don't have to spend time making mockups, bid proposals, or have to deal with the know-it-all nephew. I also get to work on fun "what-if" projects and my customers happily pay their bills. The dirty secret is that I charge for hosting - 60% of my income comes from hosting for solutions made in the past, and I don't even have to lift a finger.... well unless someone finds out about an SSL vulnerability. :)

Oculus 13y ago
Aren't you worried about downtime? Clients calling @ 2am doesn't sound like a fun time to me.

c0w 13y ago

You vastly underestimate the number of highly qualified developers in the world looking for work, and my opinion you vastly overestimate the value of your work. I would never pay your rate. Programming is a commodity. I hire PhD's from Asia and Eastern Europe for less than what would be considered minimum wage in the United States. An order of magnitude cheaper than what I assume your asking rate is. They produce great code and deliver in a reasonable timeframe. Calling this outsourcing exploitative is incredibly ignorant.

wprl 13y ago
Explain why it is not exploitative, please.
- c0w 13y ago
  It's basic economics. Here are a few terms to start with that will help you see the bigger picture: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supply_and_demand http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supply_and_demand and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Per_capita_income http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Per_capita_income. The simple matter of fact is that the value of a dollar varies greatly by location. Asserting that a wage of less than $75/hr for programming is exploitative is absurd and offensive towards anyone who's ever off-shored work. I code. I offshore. I do not exploit my employees and resent the accusation that I do. I pay them very well compared to their peers, treat them with the same consideration and respect that I treat any other human being, and do not think it reflects well on this community to have such an ignorant and offensive statement as the highest ranked comment on this thread.

lnanek2 13y ago

They must not be talking about developers alone. The only developers who work that cheap are remote from other countries. I could see it maybe for IT people who wipe hard drives in computer labs or something like that, and who don't bill directly, but are paid by an agency that bills and takes a cut.

mcmillion 13y ago

I tried this for over a year and remained unemployed. Finally gave in for a $15/hr gig. It very much depends on where you live. The pool of clients in this region is very dry, and no one is willing to pay.