5 ms·

Font War: Inside the Design World's $20M Divorce

81 points by RougeFemme 13y ago

gkoberger 13y ago
Seems they've already changed the name to Hoefler & Co on their website[1]. Also interesting that Frere-Jones isn't exclusively using ahis own typefaces on his own website[2], likely due to them being owned by Hoefler. H&FJ make some of my favorite typefaces; it's a shame their relationship has come to an end. 1. http://www.typography.com/ http://www.typography.com/ 2. http://www.frerejones.com/ http://www.frerejones.com/ EDIT: Whoops, looks like MyFonts attributed it to different designers http://www.myfonts.com/fonts/fontbureau/benton-modern-display/ http://www.myfonts.com/fonts/fontbureau/benton-modern-displa...
- abrowne 13y ago
  He's using faces he designed before H&FJ: Benton Modern[1] and Interstate[2] (as noted on Daring Fireball[3]). [1]: http://www.fontbureau.com/fonts/bentonmodern/ http://www.fontbureau.com/fonts/bentonmodern/ [2]: http://www.fontbureau.com/fonts/interstate/ http://www.fontbureau.com/fonts/interstate/ [3]: http://daringfireball.net/linked/2014/04/07/new-york-type http://daringfireball.net/linked/2014/04/07/new-york-type
- Fuxy 13y ago
  I hate to chip in on matters i know nothing about but that contract looks suspiciously one sided even for someone who knows nothing about this situation. As in something only a trusting gullible person would sign based on a verbal agreement and without consulting a lawyer. 2 years unable to work without your previous employers permission? Holy shit is that even enforceable? He definitely got screwed to what degree I don't know.
subpixel 13y ago
Trust, but verify.
- andrewchoi 13y ago
  In God we trust; all others bring data.
chasing 13y ago
It really does seem like Hoefler pulled one helluva scam on poor Frere-Jones, here. And I really hope FJ gets some relief. But. Talk about painting a giant target on your forehead...
fuzionmonkey 13y ago
If Frere-Jones loses the lawsuit, he should just release his own versions of Gotham, Whitney, etc. After all, in the United States, typefaces are not subject to copyright [1]. There is legal precedent that provides protection for font files, (i.e. the "software" that generates the fonts) but the designs themselves cannot be copyrighted. Just consider the many variants of Helvetica or Futura [2], each published by a different foundry. If Frere-Jones' allegations are true, I've lost all respect for what is now Hoefler & Co. I remember eagerly awaiting the release of H&FJ webfont licensing for years. Quite a shame what has happened between the two, H&FJ was truly a great foundry. [1] http://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/retrieveECFR?gp=&SID=a71104dd9f045002681202f3f302a5d4&r=PART&n=37y1.0.2.6.3#37:1.0.2.6.3.0.214.1 http://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/retrieveECFR?gp=&SID=a71104dd9f0... [2] http://www.quora.com/Typefaces/Which-foundrys-version-of-Futura-should-I-buy/answer/Stephen-Coles-1?share=1 http://www.quora.com/Typefaces/Which-foundrys-version-of-Fut...
- muglug 13y ago
  If Frere-Jones released versions of Gotham & Whitney, he'd be cutting off his nose to spite his face. There'd a very large amount of investment required to create anything close to the the versatility & range of H&Co's Gotham (including all various weights, narrow families and truetype hinted webfonts), and it would render him a much less sympathetic character. His best bet is his current course of action, arduous and expensive as it is. It really does appear that he's been shafted, but I hope each side gets a fair hearing before a judge.
pmorici 13y ago
How does something like this even materialize? Is it a matter of there not being written contracts I mean the guys name was in the company name how can they say he was only an employee?
- drcoopster 13y ago
  FJ's name wasn't in the official company name, just their assumed (doing business as) name, which is meaningless.
  - pmorici 13y ago
    So essentially the one guy with more business sense tricked the other guy into thinking things were one way when they were not.
    - integraton 13y ago
      Essentially, but we need a phrase other than "business sense" to describe this kind of terrible behavior.
      - 100k 13y ago
        Sociopath?
- gadders 13y ago
  He kept rejecting the contract as the font was improperly kerned and he didn't like the serifs.
jeremyw 13y ago
Even to a type enthusiast, their ~equal partnership rang like a bell. Can Frere-Jones be blamed (putting aside legalities) for his lapse? Just reminisce, a mere 8 years, no Venture Hacks and Y Combinator, no bright lights on the way naifs should think about business and partnerships. How many verbal contracts gone sour have you heard about? We are trusting souls. (These guys joined up in 1999.)
erikpukinskis 13y ago
Even if everything Hoefler says is true, and he owns the company outright, the fact that he let a high-ranking employee of his for many years believe they were a full partner is utterly deplorable.
- 100k 13y ago
  To the point of doing business under the purported employee's name! That's pretty low.
gammarator 13y ago
The legal complaint by Frere-Jones is riveting: https://iapps.courts.state.ny.us/fbem/DocumentDisplayServlet?documentId=ydQwzs4EZjDkplRrBmkkwA==system=prod https://iapps.courts.state.ny.us/fbem/DocumentDisplayServlet...
- jchendy 13y ago
  This part is amusing: THE PARTIES 4. Plaintiff Tobias Frere-Jones is one of the world's leading and most recognized type designers, having designed over 800 fonts, in over 145 languages, that are widely used in newspapers, magazines, advertising, packaging, websites, corporate identities, political campaigns and websites around the world. He joined the faculty of the Yale School of Art in 1996 and frequently lectures on typeface design and typography at other academic institutions and graphic design organizations throughout the world. His work has been profiled in many trade and general purpose publications, and is included in the permanent collection of the Victoria & Albert Museum, London and the Museum of Modern Art, New York. In 2006, Frere-Jones became the first American to receive the prestigious Gerrit Noordzij Prize, presented by the Royal Academy of Fine Arts in The Hague in honor of his unique contributions to type design, typography, and type education. In 2013, he received the AlGA medal -the graphic design profession's highest honor-in recognition for his exceptional achievements over the course of his career, and his contributions to the field of design and visual communication. 5. Defendant Jonathan Hoefler is also a type designer and a businessman.
jamesaguilar 13y ago
Get. It. In. Writing. Number zero rule of doing business, especially with friends.
deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
pcrh 13y ago
This reminds me of the feud between Cobden-Sanderson and Walker over the Doves font that was used by Kelmscott Press, founded by William Morris. Cobden-Sanderson committed "typocide" in order to prevent others from using this font. http://www.economist.com/news/christmas-specials/21591793-legendary-typeface-gets-second-life-fight-over-doves http://www.economist.com/news/christmas-specials/21591793-le... http://7thsealblog.wordpress.com/2011/09/10/reviving-the-doves-type-%E2%80%93-part-i-2/ http://7thsealblog.wordpress.com/2011/09/10/reviving-the-dov...
danmaz74 13y ago
"The sale was for nominal consideration of $10 and Frere-Jones, who had left Font Bureau, moved to New York and actively worked to build HTF" This should be enough to show that Hoefler is a scumbag - and Frere-Jones a really naive person. I hope that Hoefler will have his business reputation ruined.

81 points by RougeFemme 13y ago

Seems they've already changed the name to Hoefler & Co on their website[1]. Also interesting that Frere-Jones isn't exclusively using ahis own typefaces on his own website[2], likely due to them being owned by Hoefler. H&FJ make some of my favorite typefaces; it's a shame their relationship has come to an end. 1. http://www.typography.com/ http://www.typography.com/ 2. http://www.frerejones.com/ http://www.frerejones.com/ EDIT: Whoops, looks like MyFonts attributed it to different designers http://www.myfonts.com/fonts/fontbureau/benton-modern-display/ http://www.myfonts.com/fonts/fontbureau/benton-modern-displa...

abrowne 13y ago
He's using faces he designed before H&FJ: Benton Modern[1] and Interstate[2] (as noted on Daring Fireball[3]). [1]: http://www.fontbureau.com/fonts/bentonmodern/ http://www.fontbureau.com/fonts/bentonmodern/ [2]: http://www.fontbureau.com/fonts/interstate/ http://www.fontbureau.com/fonts/interstate/ [3]: http://daringfireball.net/linked/2014/04/07/new-york-type http://daringfireball.net/linked/2014/04/07/new-york-type
Fuxy 13y ago
I hate to chip in on matters i know nothing about but that contract looks suspiciously one sided even for someone who knows nothing about this situation. As in something only a trusting gullible person would sign based on a verbal agreement and without consulting a lawyer. 2 years unable to work without your previous employers permission? Holy shit is that even enforceable? He definitely got screwed to what degree I don't know.

subpixel 13y ago

Trust, but verify.

andrewchoi 13y ago
In God we trust; all others bring data.

chasing 13y ago

It really does seem like Hoefler pulled one helluva scam on poor Frere-Jones, here. And I really hope FJ gets some relief. But. Talk about painting a giant target on your forehead...

fuzionmonkey 13y ago

If Frere-Jones loses the lawsuit, he should just release his own versions of Gotham, Whitney, etc. After all, in the United States, typefaces are not subject to copyright [1]. There is legal precedent that provides protection for font files, (i.e. the "software" that generates the fonts) but the designs themselves cannot be copyrighted. Just consider the many variants of Helvetica or Futura [2], each published by a different foundry. If Frere-Jones' allegations are true, I've lost all respect for what is now Hoefler & Co. I remember eagerly awaiting the release of H&FJ webfont licensing for years. Quite a shame what has happened between the two, H&FJ was truly a great foundry. [1] http://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/retrieveECFR?gp=&SID=a71104dd9f045002681202f3f302a5d4&r=PART&n=37y1.0.2.6.3#37:1.0.2.6.3.0.214.1 http://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/retrieveECFR?gp=&SID=a71104dd9f0... [2] http://www.quora.com/Typefaces/Which-foundrys-version-of-Futura-should-I-buy/answer/Stephen-Coles-1?share=1 http://www.quora.com/Typefaces/Which-foundrys-version-of-Fut...

muglug 13y ago
If Frere-Jones released versions of Gotham & Whitney, he'd be cutting off his nose to spite his face. There'd a very large amount of investment required to create anything close to the the versatility & range of H&Co's Gotham (including all various weights, narrow families and truetype hinted webfonts), and it would render him a much less sympathetic character. His best bet is his current course of action, arduous and expensive as it is. It really does appear that he's been shafted, but I hope each side gets a fair hearing before a judge.

pmorici 13y ago

How does something like this even materialize? Is it a matter of there not being written contracts I mean the guys name was in the company name how can they say he was only an employee?

drcoopster 13y ago
FJ's name wasn't in the official company name, just their assumed (doing business as) name, which is meaningless.
- pmorici 13y ago
  So essentially the one guy with more business sense tricked the other guy into thinking things were one way when they were not.
  - integraton 13y ago
    Essentially, but we need a phrase other than "business sense" to describe this kind of terrible behavior.
    - 100k 13y ago
      Sociopath?
gadders 13y ago
He kept rejecting the contract as the font was improperly kerned and he didn't like the serifs.

jeremyw 13y ago

Even to a type enthusiast, their ~equal partnership rang like a bell. Can Frere-Jones be blamed (putting aside legalities) for his lapse? Just reminisce, a mere 8 years, no Venture Hacks and Y Combinator, no bright lights on the way naifs should think about business and partnerships. How many verbal contracts gone sour have you heard about? We are trusting souls. (These guys joined up in 1999.)

erikpukinskis 13y ago

Even if everything Hoefler says is true, and he owns the company outright, the fact that he let a high-ranking employee of his for many years believe they were a full partner is utterly deplorable.

100k 13y ago
To the point of doing business under the purported employee's name! That's pretty low.

gammarator 13y ago

The legal complaint by Frere-Jones is riveting: https://iapps.courts.state.ny.us/fbem/DocumentDisplayServlet?documentId=ydQwzs4EZjDkplRrBmkkwA==system=prod https://iapps.courts.state.ny.us/fbem/DocumentDisplayServlet...

jchendy 13y ago
This part is amusing: THE PARTIES 4. Plaintiff Tobias Frere-Jones is one of the world's leading and most recognized type designers, having designed over 800 fonts, in over 145 languages, that are widely used in newspapers, magazines, advertising, packaging, websites, corporate identities, political campaigns and websites around the world. He joined the faculty of the Yale School of Art in 1996 and frequently lectures on typeface design and typography at other academic institutions and graphic design organizations throughout the world. His work has been profiled in many trade and general purpose publications, and is included in the permanent collection of the Victoria & Albert Museum, London and the Museum of Modern Art, New York. In 2006, Frere-Jones became the first American to receive the prestigious Gerrit Noordzij Prize, presented by the Royal Academy of Fine Arts in The Hague in honor of his unique contributions to type design, typography, and type education. In 2013, he received the AlGA medal -the graphic design profession's highest honor-in recognition for his exceptional achievements over the course of his career, and his contributions to the field of design and visual communication. 5. Defendant Jonathan Hoefler is also a type designer and a businessman.

jamesaguilar 13y ago

Get. It. In. Writing. Number zero rule of doing business, especially with friends.

deleted 13y ago

[deleted]

pcrh 13y ago

This reminds me of the feud between Cobden-Sanderson and Walker over the Doves font that was used by Kelmscott Press, founded by William Morris. Cobden-Sanderson committed "typocide" in order to prevent others from using this font. http://www.economist.com/news/christmas-specials/21591793-legendary-typeface-gets-second-life-fight-over-doves http://www.economist.com/news/christmas-specials/21591793-le... http://7thsealblog.wordpress.com/2011/09/10/reviving-the-doves-type-%E2%80%93-part-i-2/ http://7thsealblog.wordpress.com/2011/09/10/reviving-the-dov...

danmaz74 13y ago

"The sale was for nominal consideration of $10 and Frere-Jones, who had left Font Bureau, moved to New York and actively worked to build HTF" This should be enough to show that Hoefler is a scumbag - and Frere-Jones a really naive person. I hope that Hoefler will have his business reputation ruined.