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> Yes, I chat with my friends in "sms" style Arabic on IM so to speak. Hmm, so you're saying Quranic Arabic is like sms style No I'm saying that sms arabic is

by waps 13y ago

> Yes, I chat with my friends in "sms" style Arabic on IM so to speak. Hmm, so you're saying Quranic Arabic is like sms style No I'm saying that sms arabic is a transliteration or arabic into latin script, despite very different alphabets. Obviously it's possible. I find it fascinating, because there's actually multiple styles of doing this. But I like the version where they use numbers to complete the set of letters. Reminds me of old French texts that also have a "3"-shaped letter lost in the middle of words instead of the modern letter, and those were some of the first non-mother-tongue texts I read. Fairy tales. I think I'm getting old. > Wrong again. Vowels ARE part of both languages. In modern arabic, sort-of (spoken, yes, written, not really, same as in hebrew really, which is to say, not at all (say different vowels and people will still understand you), but yes you can put little marks on the letters now indicating which vowel to use in "most" cases. I was told this is mainly done for children's first reads though, and not done in normal handwritten texts). In ancient (written) arabic, it is never done. Obviously the arabs living in the 8th century still used vowels, just not in writing. As for Luxenberg's thesis, buy his book and read it. It has chapters full of those verses. > The language of the Quran did play a role in converting people back when it was revealed, because it was unique -- yet still understandable. Doesn't that just further confirm this situation though ? It's "unique", is that perhaps a polite way of saying that it's very different from anything else you've ever read, with "weird" verb forms, words with wrong roots and the like ? I guess I don't fully understand what you're saying. Either it's "unique" arabic, or it's not, right. I'm thinking that what you're calling unique arabic would be more accurately identified as "not quite" arabic.

azth 13y ago
> No I'm saying that sms arabic is a transliteration or arabic into latin script... I see your point. Though that still does not advance Luxemberg's claim. > In modern arabic, sort-of (spoken, yes, written, not really, same as in hebrew really, which is to say, not at all... I really don't understand this claim. What about the following letters since you say you can read Arabic: (و، ا، ي) Aren't they vowels? Did you take a look at the Kufic manuscript I linked in my previous post? Those letters exist there as well. Hebrew and Aramaic both have corresponding letters to those too. > Obviously the arabs living in the 8th century still used vowels, just not in writing... The Kufic script image I linked to proves otherwise. I take it I got the point across with the root of the word Qur'aan (Qa-Ra-'a) :-) > It's "unique", is that perhaps a polite way of saying that it's very different from anything else you've ever read, with "weird" verb forms, words with wrong roots and the like ? Speculation on your part (when you say "perhaps"). I will try to go more into details about this topic in another post (if this thread remains open!)
- waps 13y ago
  Those letters are not vowels, no. Like in Hebrew, they're more akin to separation characters. Like, in latin languages you write 2 letters and you have the difference between open and closed vowels. Certain rules then dictate when you have 2 open vowels after one another, you're supposed to introduce a word boundary, and abrupt fall-of of the first vowel immediately followed by the second, also long (fun thing is that, of course the rules started changing. So in latin ae the a and e are short vowels, like 'ai', but in English you'd say 'a-e'), which is sort-of the same in latin. It's just in latin you write the vowel before and after the split, in semitic languages you write that there is a split. These letters make the difference between, say, kaba and ka-aba. Or agan and haganah ('haganaa'). But you'd still use the same letters for keaba, kuoba, and other words (if they existed).
azth 13y ago
Regarding vowels: what is the first letter in the Arabic, Aramaic, and Hebrew alphabets?

by waps 13y ago

azth 13y ago

> No I'm saying that sms arabic is a transliteration or arabic into latin script... I see your point. Though that still does not advance Luxemberg's claim. > In modern arabic, sort-of (spoken, yes, written, not really, same as in hebrew really, which is to say, not at all... I really don't understand this claim. What about the following letters since you say you can read Arabic: (و، ا، ي) Aren't they vowels? Did you take a look at the Kufic manuscript I linked in my previous post? Those letters exist there as well. Hebrew and Aramaic both have corresponding letters to those too. > Obviously the arabs living in the 8th century still used vowels, just not in writing... The Kufic script image I linked to proves otherwise. I take it I got the point across with the root of the word Qur'aan (Qa-Ra-'a) :-) > It's "unique", is that perhaps a polite way of saying that it's very different from anything else you've ever read, with "weird" verb forms, words with wrong roots and the like ? Speculation on your part (when you say "perhaps"). I will try to go more into details about this topic in another post (if this thread remains open!)

waps 13y ago
Those letters are not vowels, no. Like in Hebrew, they're more akin to separation characters. Like, in latin languages you write 2 letters and you have the difference between open and closed vowels. Certain rules then dictate when you have 2 open vowels after one another, you're supposed to introduce a word boundary, and abrupt fall-of of the first vowel immediately followed by the second, also long (fun thing is that, of course the rules started changing. So in latin ae the a and e are short vowels, like 'ai', but in English you'd say 'a-e'), which is sort-of the same in latin. It's just in latin you write the vowel before and after the split, in semitic languages you write that there is a split. These letters make the difference between, say, kaba and ka-aba. Or agan and haganah ('haganaa'). But you'd still use the same letters for keaba, kuoba, and other words (if they existed).

azth 13y ago

Regarding vowels: what is the first letter in the Arabic, Aramaic, and Hebrew alphabets?