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Ask HN: Do you prefer to work for socially conscientious employers?
I've had an idea for a while that (for those at the top of their field, and have their pick of the litter so to speak as to who their employer will be) generally speaking salary only does so much for you when looking at the package a potential employer offers. Would it be a safe assumption that, generally speaking, those at the top of their field not only want to get paid what they're worth (or more), but want the whole package, whether that is a guarantee to work on projects that interest them, or carte blanche in terms of your ability to choose how you spend your time.
Would such folks ever consider taking lower pay to work for what you'd consider to be a "socially conscientious" employer?
The reason for this question is I've wanted to begin compiling data that would make it easier for those at the top of their field to make the more "socially conscientious" decision about who writes their paycheck. And even in the rare case persuade those at the top of their field to pursue employment with the more "socially conscientious" company. The analysis (as to who is more worth) of course comes in many forms and would be interpreted in many different ways, so I envision more of a repository where a person would go to get the raw data in an organized / accessible fashion, instead of that data being hidden behind a "5-star rating" for example.
The hypothesis I'm considering here is that empowering people to make the right decisions about who employs them has the potential to (over time) help to ensure that those companies who have the best track records as being socially conscientious could end up being market leaders and not just an after thought within the markets that they serve.
- datashovel 13y agoanother important question here too then is how do you currently gauge this kind of thing, and what specific things matter, when choosing who to work for?
- meric 13y agoYou could put the need for social conscientiousness on a scale. Some people might be reluctant to work as a contract killer, but is perfectly happy to work in a cigarette company. Some people might not even consider a cigarette company, no matter the salary. I think if we see social conscientiousness as a continuum, everyone would consider lower pay for a more socially conscientious employer, to some degree.
- davidgerard 13y ago"Would such folks ever consider taking lower pay to work for what you'd consider to be a "socially conscientious" employer?" c.f. the attraction of working at Wikimedia for far less than you might get at Google or Facebook.
- glimcat 13y agoDo you prefer to work for socially conscientious employers? Sure. But there's always the competing option of "work for a socially ambivalent megacorp which pays more, then donate the delta to your cause of choice." Or more commonly, "I have three kids and medical bills, and am not free to arbitrarily take substantial pay cuts."
- Mz 13y agoOne data point you should look at and look at hard: Companies that pay better have higher employee retention and this leads to both lowered costs for the employer in terms of turnover and an accumulation of internal knowledge/wisdom/experience that is difficult to measure the value of. I am pretty tired of this idea that do-gooders should get paid less. I did a lot of volunteer work. I had a health site for a time and people either pissed on me and told me it was a worthless piece of shit or they told me it was wonderful but I should give away what I know out of the goodness of my heart. So both people who felt I did not know anything of value and people who felt I did know something of value felt I should not get anything in return for the value offered. I think that's a broken model. I am well aware that we pay a premium to hit men or for people to ruin their quality of life by working long overtime hours, but if you do it right, creating value should come back to you. Yes, you have to not bleed the market. "Strip-mining" type business models can extract value until it runs out. There are situations -- mining certain minerals -- where, no, no more is being made. But there are also situations where taking too much at one time reduces the long term value (deforestation comes to mind). So being good stewards of the earth's resources can actually improve long term profitability and that should be a big part of socially conscientious businesses. The other thing is that a lot of things humans value are not directly measurable in the way you seem to be framing things. I had a job where I worked 37.5 hours/week. It was a full time job and it was an evening shift, so they gave a bit of a bonus to make it pay about the same as the day shift. I wanted the evening shift because of my health issues and the slightly less long work week made a big difference for me in my ability to cope. People who have kids or health issues or are going to school while working or have some hobby that matters a lot to them -- their job needs to accommodate the fact that they have a life, they don't just live to work. The work to live. So how a job is packaged can ultimately matter more than whether or not someone thinks a particular job is morally "good."
- datashovel 13y agoI agree with you. At least I think I do, where you are talking about the fact that higher pay equals better retention and thus lower long-term costs to employer. Although I imagine since this is a sort of proposal or question as to "how do we change the status quo" where those companies with the best track record are in fact the leaders in their respective markets. In that other world I imagine pay would be better at these companies since they would be market leaders. And I'm not even necessarily saying, though it may not be obvious in the original question, that people should need to chose between "GreenPeace" and "British Petroleum". I'm instead imagining, for example, that someone would be chosing perhaps between "Facebook" and "green Facebook" whatever that other company's name is. We're still in a demand / supply economy so companies that do the same sort of thing would need to start differentiating themselves not just in how large and powerful they are, but also in how they impact the world in a larger way. One idea here would be: Suppose a large pharmaceutical companies are trying to patent technologies to protect their businesses, but then a new kind of pharmaceutical company came into existence where they openly worked more for the greater good, not trying to patent things but trying to solve important health related problems and making those solutions open. Because people see the inherent good in what they're doing all of a sudden they are the ones who become the market leader in pharmaceutical companies because everyone wants to be their customers instead of those companies who try to stifle innovation through ridiculous patents and even more ridiculous marketing strategies.
- gregcohn 13y agoI think this question would be better phrased as, "How much of a pay or benefits cut would you be willing to take in order to work for a socially conscious employer?" Studies have been done along these lines measuring consumer willingness to pay for eco-conscious products. Not surprisingly, it's a question of how much the premium is. See http://www.mckinsey.com/insights/manufacturing/how_much_will_consumers_pay_to_go_green http://www.mckinsey.com/insights/manufacturing/how_much_will... I imagine similar studies have been done on organic food. Of course many of these studies go off what people say, and really we need to measure in all of these cases what people actually do when confronted with the actual choice.
- dlwiest 13y agoIn order of priority, it definitely ranks below salary, benefits, how enjoyable the work is, and where the job is located. If my employer happens to be socially conscientious, that's a nice bonus, but I can't see choosing a job based on it.